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<H1>[Mono-gc-list] Copying or Mark-Compact collector?
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<B>Fernando Diaz
</B>
<A HREF="mailto:fdiaz%40igalia.com"
TITLE="[Mono-gc-list] Copying or Mark-Compact collector?">fdiaz@igalia.com
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<I>12 Aug 2003 10:56:40 +0200</I>
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<PRE>Hi guys!.
My research about a Garbage collector for Mono is advancing. Now is the
moment to choose between the classical algorithms. I think that the
better techniques are Copying and Mark-Compact. Since my point of view
their behavior are very similar. What do you think about?.
I would like you to write your opinions.
Regards.
--
Fernando Diaz &lt;<A HREF="mailto:fdiaz@igalia.com">fdiaz@igalia.com</A>&gt;
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<B>Dick Porter
</B>
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<I>12 Aug 2003 11:08:24 +0100</I>
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<PRE>On Tue, 2003-08-12 at 09:56, Fernando Diaz wrote:
&gt;<i> Hi guys!.
</I>&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;<i> My research about a Garbage collector for Mono is advancing. Now is the
</I>&gt;<i> moment to choose between the classical algorithms. I think that the
</I>&gt;<i> better techniques are Copying and Mark-Compact. Since my point of view
</I>&gt;<i> their behavior are very similar. What do you think about?.
</I>
Are you writing us a new gc?
Previously we've studied the ORP garbage collection libraries. We were
going to incorporate that code into mono, but it being c++ made that too
difficult without lots of rewriting. The ORP hackers were going to
reimplement in C, but we haven't heard from them since then, and we used
the Boehm libgc as an interim measure.
The ORP collector had several algorithms, but the most interesting one
from our point of view was the incremental copying one. As far as I
know, the gc in the ms runtime uses this technique too.
- Dick
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<B>Fernando Diaz
</B>
<A HREF="mailto:fdiaz%40igalia.com"
TITLE="[Mono-gc-list] Copying or Mark-Compact collector?">fdiaz@igalia.com
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<I>12 Aug 2003 12:38:30 +0200</I>
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<PRE>El mar, 12 de 08 de 2003 a las 12:08, Dick Porter escribi=F3:
&gt;<i>=20
</I>&gt;<i> Are you writing us a new gc?
</I>
I'm working at this.
&gt;<i> Previously we've studied the ORP garbage collection libraries. We were
</I>&gt;<i> going to incorporate that code into mono, but it being c++ made that too
</I>&gt;<i> difficult without lots of rewriting. The ORP hackers were going to
</I>&gt;<i> reimplement in C, but we haven't heard from them since then, and we used
</I>&gt;<i> the Boehm libgc as an interim measure.
</I>&gt;<i>=20
</I>
The Boehm it's a good GC but it is very conservative and i think that
has a lot of unnecessary things that make the system heavier,
&gt;<i> The ORP collector had several algorithms, but the most interesting one
</I>&gt;<i> from our point of view was the incremental copying one. As far as I
</I>&gt;<i> know, the gc in the ms runtime uses this technique too.
</I>
In the articles about the GC collector of ms:
<A HREF="http://msdn.microsoft.com/msdnmag/issues/1100/GCI/default.aspx">http://msdn.microsoft.com/msdnmag/issues/1100/GCI/default.aspx</A>
<A HREF="http://msdn.microsoft.com/msdnmag/issues/1200/GCI2/default.aspx">http://msdn.microsoft.com/msdnmag/issues/1200/GCI2/default.aspx</A>
i have read that de .NET GC is a generational Mark-Compact collector.
They say nothing about if it is incremental or non incremental.
Why do you want an incremental collector? I think that a non incremental
collector will be more simple and efficient that an incremental one.
Give me your opinion please.
Regards.
--=20
Fernando Diaz &lt;<A HREF="mailto:fdiaz@igalia.com">fdiaz@igalia.com</A>&gt;
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<H1>[Mono-gc-list] My arguments
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<B>Fernando Diaz
</B>
<A HREF="mailto:fdiaz%40igalia.com"
TITLE="[Mono-gc-list] My arguments">fdiaz@igalia.com
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<I>12 Aug 2003 13:21:33 +0200</I>
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<PRE>In the other mail i have suggested two algorithms for a future garbage
collector for Mono:
1) Mark-Compact
2) Copying Collection
I have been made an study about the different techniques for a garbage
collector for a month.=20
The classical algorithms are:
1) Mark-Sweep
2) Mark-Compact
3) Reference Counting
4) Copying Collection
5) Non-Copying Collection.
I think that Mono needs a collector that make the allocation process the
simpliest it could be, then i refused the Mark-Sweep and Non-Copying
Collection, because they have the problem of fragmentation what guide us
to a complex allocator.
The reference counting algorithm have the problem that it can clean
objects with cyclic references between them, and it has a beavy
algorithm.
With Mark-Compact we have a collector that provides us a fast and simply
allocation routine, and a good locality for cach=E9 and virtual memory.
The same as Mark-Compact ocurrs in Copying Collection. The problem with
them is that we need to rebuild the references to the objects after a
collection, because the objects will me moved from their original
location into the heap.
A generational adaptation of these algorithms would be good, it would
make them more efficient. But an incremental adaptation would make them
more complex and it would give them a few advantages.
What do you think about?.
Regards.
--=20
Fernando Diaz &lt;<A HREF="mailto:fdiaz@igalia.com">fdiaz@igalia.com</A>&gt;
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<B>Fergus Henderson
</B>
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<I>Tue, 12 Aug 2003 22:53:21 +1000</I>
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<PRE>On 12-Aug-2003, Fernando Diaz &lt;<A HREF="mailto:fdiaz@igalia.com">fdiaz@igalia.com</A>&gt; wrote:
&gt;<i> In the other mail i have suggested two algorithms for a future garbage
</I>&gt;<i> collector for Mono:
</I>&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;<i> 1) Mark-Compact
</I>&gt;<i> 2) Copying Collection
</I>...
&gt;<i> A generational adaptation of these algorithms would be good, it would
</I>&gt;<i> make them more efficient.
</I>...
&gt;<i> What do you think about?.
</I>
If you go for copying collection, it may be worth considering the
Beltway approach, which is a generalization of ordinary and generational
copying collection -- see [1].
[1] &quot;Beltway: Getting Around Garbage Collection Gridlock&quot;,
Stephen M. Blackburn, Richard Jones, Kathryn S. McKinley, J Eliot B. Moss.
ACM SIGPLAN 2002 Conference on Programming Language Design and
Implementation, Berlin, June 2002.
--
Fergus Henderson &lt;<A HREF="mailto:fjh@cs.mu.oz.au">fjh@cs.mu.oz.au</A>&gt; | &quot;I have always known that the pursuit
The University of Melbourne | of excellence is a lethal habit&quot;
WWW: &lt;<A HREF="http://www.cs.mu.oz.au/~fjh">http://www.cs.mu.oz.au/~fjh</A>&gt; | -- the last words of T. S. Garp.
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<B>David Jeske
</B>
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<I>Tue, 12 Aug 2003 13:01:27 -0700</I>
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<PRE>On Tue, Aug 12, 2003 at 10:56:40AM +0200, Fernando Diaz wrote:
&gt;<i> My research about a Garbage collector for Mono is advancing. Now is
</I>&gt;<i> the moment to choose between the classical algorithms.
</I>
I think we should be very careful about a common pitfall. Current
environments with GC almost all have unacceptable pauses for
interactive applications. This includes Java and MS.NET. Worse, since
CPU speed has increased far faster than memory speed, this situation
is getting worse not better.
<A HREF="http://mozart.chat.net/~jeske/Projects/PauseFreeGC/">http://mozart.chat.net/~jeske/Projects/PauseFreeGC/</A>
One of the biggest problems with modern collectors is that their work
is proportional to heap size, so when the heap gets big, their
throughput degrades. Furthermore, they almost always do 'stop the
world' collection of something, and pause the application.
&gt;<i> I think that the better techniques are Copying and
</I>&gt;<i> Mark-Compact. Since my point of view their behavior are very
</I>&gt;<i> similar. What do you think about?.
</I>
IMO, Copying/Compacting collectors are 'not good'. The performance
overhead required to use handles instead of pointers (like the JVM) or
to track down and update all pointers, in order to facilitate moving
objects, is very undesirable. Copying/Compacting collectors are
solving a problem which does not need to be solved, namely allocation
time and fragmentation. Most C/C++ applications are not suffering from
either of these. If mono had performance similar to C++ I would be
thrilled.
I think the contenders for a low-pause collector are:
1) tracing/copying generational and incremental - see OCaml, Modula3
2) tracing generational and fully concurrent
3) hybrid reference counting plus stack tracing plus
fully concurrent generational cycle finding - see Python and research
I'm particularly fond of #3, and here is why:
While referencing counting might seems like &quot;old technology&quot;, the most
popular automatic memory management systems are all reference
counted. This includes Visual Basic (&lt;=VB6), COM, Perl, Python,
PHP4. Reference counting is very effective because (a) it does not
pause, and (b) non-cyclic collection is not proportional to heap-size.
Reference counting is often criticised for having expensive
write-barriers (i.e. incrementing and decrementing counters). However,
read operations are far more important that write operations, so these
same criticisms should bar using handle-based copying collectors which
slow down all reads through handle dereferencing.
Reference counting normally imposes the constraint that the programmer
not introduce cycles. This is annoying, but at least it is possible to
write programs which do not pause. In most modern GC systems, avoiding
pauses entirely is not possible. Reference counting can fallback to a
tracing GC style cycle-finding to clean up cyclic garbage. IMO, it is
easier to make this cycle-finding incremental and non-pausing because
it is the secondary collection scheme. Programmers who cannot affort
the background cycle finder can just turn it off and write their
programs without cycles.
Using a hybrid scheme which traces the stack and registers allows the
most common operations (i.e. handling data in local variables and
arguments) to occur without doing the work of reference counting.
----
However, whatever collection system we choose to implement, the goal
should be to allow the user to tradeoff between worst-case pause times
and memory usage. Currently there are many applications which simply
can't be written in Java or C# because the worst-case pause times are
unacceptable.
--
David Jeske (N9LCA) + <A HREF="http://www.chat.net/~jeske/">http://www.chat.net/~jeske/</A> + <A HREF="mailto:jeske@chat.net">jeske@chat.net</A>
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<B>David Jeske
</B>
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<I>Tue, 12 Aug 2003 13:54:30 -0700</I>
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<PRE>On Tue, Aug 12, 2003 at 01:21:33PM +0200, Fernando Diaz wrote:
&gt;<i> I have been made an study about the different techniques for a garbage
</I>&gt;<i> collector for a month.
</I>
I am interseted to know what questions you were studying.
When deciding whether or not I can write a piece of software with a
garbage collected system, I ask myself:
1) what is the worst case pause time for my expected heap size
2) what is the throughput of the collector when large amounts of
memory are deallocated
3) how does the collector (and environment) interact with data
accessable through modules written in C
Did you consider anything related to those questions?
&gt;<i> I think that Mono needs a collector that make the allocation process the
</I>&gt;<i> simpliest it could be, then i refused the Mark-Sweep and Non-Copying
</I>&gt;<i> Collection, because they have the problem of fragmentation what guide us
</I>&gt;<i> to a complex allocator.
</I>
I think that the current libgc is &quot;as simple as can be&quot; because
someone else wrote it already. Writing another collector aught to have
much more aggressive goals than this to make it more useful than
libgc.
I think the goal should be to help Mono come closer to the performance
of hand-coded C++. This means no pausing at all, even for really large
heaps. C++ already uses malloc(), so doing something similar is not a
problem.
&gt;<i> The same as Mark-Compact ocurrs in Copying Collection. The problem with
</I>&gt;<i> them is that we need to rebuild the references to the objects after a
</I>&gt;<i> collection, because the objects will me moved from their original
</I>&gt;<i> location into the heap.
</I>
I don't understand. The objects are moved in both copying collection
and the compact phaze of mark-compact. Can you explain why you think
copying collectors are a problem while mark-compact are not?
&gt;<i> A generational adaptation of these algorithms would be good, it
</I>&gt;<i> would make them more efficient. But an incremental adaptation would
</I>&gt;<i> make them more complex and it would give them a few advantages.
</I>
When I'm writing a piece of useful interactive software (web-server,
client application), I will happily give up 30-50% of my CPU if I have
to, but I cannot accept uncontrolled pauses. That's why I'm happier
writing software in slow reference counted languages like Python, than
fast GC-pausing languages like Java.
Therefore, the collector must either be incremental (tri-color,
reference counted, etc..) or fully concurrent with the application.
If we're not going to achieve that, we might as well just keep using
libgc.
--
David Jeske (N9LCA) + <A HREF="http://www.chat.net/~jeske/">http://www.chat.net/~jeske/</A> + <A HREF="mailto:jeske@chat.net">jeske@chat.net</A>
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<H1>[Mono-gc-list] My arguments
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<B>Fergus Henderson
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<I>Wed, 13 Aug 2003 15:44:29 +1000</I>
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<PRE>On 12-Aug-2003, David Jeske &lt;<A HREF="mailto:jeske@chat.net">jeske@chat.net</A>&gt; wrote:
&gt;<i> When I'm writing a piece of useful interactive software (web-server,
</I>&gt;<i> client application), I will happily give up 30-50% of my CPU if I have
</I>&gt;<i> to, but I cannot accept uncontrolled pauses.
</I>...
&gt;<i> Therefore, the collector must either be incremental (tri-color,
</I>&gt;<i> reference counted, etc..) or fully concurrent with the application.
</I>&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;<i> If we're not going to achieve that, we might as well just keep using
</I>&gt;<i> libgc.
</I>
I don't agree. For many applications we ought to be able to get
significantly better performance than libgc using a good copying or
mark/compact garbage collector. Also, there are advantages to using a
type-accurate collector rather than a conservative collector (e.g. more
predictable memory usage) which are desirable for some applications.
So type-accurate copying or compacting collection is desirable even
if it is not incremental.
Furthermore, for non-interactive applications, incrementality is
not useful, and adding incrementality probably requires trading off
performance, which is undesirable. So in fact for these applications
incremental collection is not just unnecessary, it is postively harmful.
Of course you are right that some other applications need incremental
collection. Different applications have different needs that can only
be satisfied by different garbage collectors. So the long-term plan
should be to have several different garbage collectors, or at least
several different GC strategies, and to provide application developers
with some way of giving hints to the runtime about which GC to use.
In the short to medium term, I think implementing a type-accurate
collector and integrating it with the rest of the Mono implementation
is already a complex task, so I think we should start off simple,
e.g. with a straight-forward copying collector, and then worry about
extending it to support generational collection, and only then worry
about an incremental collector. However, we should of course keep in
mind while developing this the long-term goal of having support for
multiple different collectors or collection strategies including at
least one incremental collector.
--
Fergus Henderson &lt;<A HREF="mailto:fjh@cs.mu.oz.au">fjh@cs.mu.oz.au</A>&gt; | &quot;I have always known that the pursuit
The University of Melbourne | of excellence is a lethal habit&quot;
WWW: &lt;<A HREF="http://www.cs.mu.oz.au/~fjh">http://www.cs.mu.oz.au/~fjh</A>&gt; | -- the last words of T. S. Garp.
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<B>David Jeske
</B>
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<I>Wed, 13 Aug 2003 00:05:10 -0700</I>
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<PRE>On Wed, Aug 13, 2003 at 03:44:29PM +1000, Fergus Henderson wrote:
&gt;<i> I don't agree. For many applications we ought to be able to get
</I>&gt;<i> significantly better performance than libgc using a good copying or
</I>&gt;<i> mark/compact garbage collector.
</I>
I'm not familiar enough with exactly how libgc works to know whether
this is the case or not, however, I'll take your word for it.
My point was that most applications I've worked with in the last
several years have problems with worst-case pause times long before
they have problems with memory usage or throughput. Memory is cheap
and CPUs are free, but pauses are often unacceptable. Obviously in
some environments (embedded, handheld, etc) this isn't the case.
&gt;<i> Also, there are advantages to using a type-accurate collector rather
</I>&gt;<i> than a conservative collector (e.g. more predictable memory usage)
</I>&gt;<i> which are desirable for some applications. So type-accurate copying
</I>&gt;<i> or compacting collection is desirable even if it is not incremental.
</I>
I agree there are advantages to a type-accurate collector. My
understanding is that libgc can be made aware of types to become more
type-aware and (effectively) less conservative. I think some of this
work has already been done for Mono. I could be misunderstanding
something as I have not seen the details.
&gt;<i> Of course you are right that some other applications need incremental
</I>&gt;<i> collection. Different applications have different needs that can only
</I>&gt;<i> be satisfied by different garbage collectors. So the long-term plan
</I>&gt;<i> should be to have several different garbage collectors, or at least
</I>&gt;<i> several different GC strategies, and to provide application developers
</I>&gt;<i> with some way of giving hints to the runtime about which GC to use.
</I>
We're in complete agreement here. Having a second collector
implementation would be good just because it would encourage Mono to
learn how to support multiple types of collectors. In this respect, I
encourage you to write your copying collector, and help Mono figure
out how to plug in other collectors.
&gt;<i> In the short to medium term, I think implementing a type-accurate
</I>&gt;<i> collector and integrating it with the rest of the Mono implementation
</I>&gt;<i> is already a complex task, so I think we should start off simple,
</I>&gt;<i> e.g. with a straight-forward copying collector, and then worry about
</I>&gt;<i> extending it to support generational collection, and only then worry
</I>&gt;<i> about an incremental collector. However, we should of course keep in
</I>&gt;<i> mind while developing this the long-term goal of having support for
</I>&gt;<i> multiple different collectors or collection strategies including at
</I>&gt;<i> least one incremental collector.
</I>
This sounds like a good plan. I agree that before we can have some
type non-pausing collector we need to learn how to have more than one
collector. Code on!
If anyone else is interested in doing a non-pausing collector, I'm
game to collaborate.
--
David Jeske (N9LCA) + <A HREF="http://www.chat.net/~jeske/">http://www.chat.net/~jeske/</A> + <A HREF="mailto:jeske@chat.net">jeske@chat.net</A>
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<H1>[Mono-gc-list] My arguments
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<B>Fernando Diaz
</B>
<A HREF="mailto:fdiaz%40igalia.com"
TITLE="[Mono-gc-list] My arguments">fdiaz@igalia.com
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<I>13 Aug 2003 10:56:24 +0200</I>
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<PRE>El mi=E9, 13 de 08 de 2003 a las 09:05, David Jeske escribi=F3:
At first, I must say sorry for my bad english, i think that this is one
of the reasons because of you don't understand me very well.
&gt;<i> I'm not familiar enough with exactly how libgc works to know whether
</I>&gt;<i> this is the case or not, however, I'll take your word for it.
</I>
At the last version of Mono (0.25), lihgc is working with the metadata
of the objects as the libgc works with GJC (GNU Java Compiler). This is
and advantage because makes the collector less conservative and more
accuracy. In spite of the fact, libgc isn't a good collector for Mono,
because it can take advantage of the complete metadata that Mono
provides, it only uses a piece of metadata.
&gt;<i>=20
</I>&gt;<i> My point was that most applications I've worked with in the last
</I>&gt;<i> several years have problems with worst-case pause times long before
</I>&gt;<i> they have problems with memory usage or throughput. Memory is cheap
</I>&gt;<i> and CPUs are free, but pauses are often unacceptable. Obviously in
</I>&gt;<i> some environments (embedded, handheld, etc) this isn't the case.
</I>&gt;<i>=20
</I>
I agree with you at this. There are a lot of applications that they
can't be implemented with languages like Java, because the collector
need a long pauses to do the collect. It is a disadvantage for this
languages, and it would be a great idea to free Mono of this problem.
But i also think that it isn't a priority task, because the common
applications in Mono don't need this property. I think that we need to
make Mono better for the common cases, and not for special cases.
&gt;<i> We're in complete agreement here. Having a second collector
</I>&gt;<i> implementation would be good just because it would encourage Mono to
</I>&gt;<i> learn how to support multiple types of collectors. In this respect, I
</I>&gt;<i> encourage you to write your copying collector, and help Mono figure
</I>&gt;<i> out how to plug in other collectors.
</I>
I think that it is a great idea. Give to Mono developers the faculty of
choose among a variety of collectors in function of the application that
they are developing. It is the best alternative for a new collector for
Mono, but from my point of view it will be better to go step by step.
My initial question refers to a simply &quot;stop-the-world&quot; collector. In
your opinion, which would be better,a copying or a Mark-Compact=20
collector?
In theory, a copying one needs more space (the double than Mark-Compact)
and less time (only needs to travel through the heap once, instead of
Mark-Compact that needs to travel through at least twice) than a
Mark-Compact collector. But in practice, I have read that they are very
similar (<A HREF="http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Hans_Boehm/gc/complexity.html,">http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Hans_Boehm/gc/complexity.html,</A>
this site talks about a Mark-Sweep collector, but the complexity of
Mark-Compact it will be very similar to a Mark-Compact one).
Personally, i think that a Mark-Compact will be better because we can
made Mono more compatible with .NET (.NET uses a Mark-Compact collector)
in this subject.
&gt;<i> If anyone else is interested in doing a non-pausing collector, I'm
</I>&gt;<i> game to collaborate.
</I>
I am working in a collector prototype, but i have just started. In my
initial pretensions there isn't a non-pausing collector, but it could be
a great idea, to add this functionality to the collector in the future.=20
All of my advances will be sent to the list, thus we can discusse about
it if you want. I hope this! :)
Thanks guys.
Regards.
--=20
Fernando Diaz &lt;<A HREF="mailto:fdiaz@igalia.com">fdiaz@igalia.com</A>&gt;
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<H1>[Mono-gc-list] My arguments
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<B>Fergus Henderson
</B>
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<I>Wed, 13 Aug 2003 19:22:28 +1000</I>
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<PRE>On 13-Aug-2003, Fernando Diaz &lt;<A HREF="mailto:fdiaz@igalia.com">fdiaz@igalia.com</A>&gt; wrote:
&gt;<i> &gt; I'm not familiar enough with exactly how libgc works to know whether
</I>&gt;<i> &gt; this is the case or not, however, I'll take your word for it.
</I>&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;<i> At the last version of Mono (0.25), lihgc is working with the metadata
</I>&gt;<i> of the objects as the libgc works with GJC (GNU Java Compiler). This is
</I>&gt;<i> and advantage because makes the collector less conservative and more
</I>&gt;<i> accuracy. In spite of the fact, libgc isn't a good collector for Mono,
</I>&gt;<i> because it can take advantage of the complete metadata that Mono
</I>&gt;<i> provides, it only uses a piece of metadata.
</I>
I think you meant to say it _can't_ take advantage.
That's right, the C stack is still scanned conservatively.
&gt;<i> My initial question refers to a simply &quot;stop-the-world&quot; collector. In
</I>&gt;<i> your opinion, which would be better,a copying or a Mark-Compact
</I>&gt;<i> collector?
</I>
I would go for a copying collector to start with, just because it is a
bit simpler.
&gt;<i> In theory, a copying one needs more space (the double than Mark-Compact)
</I>&gt;<i> and less time (only needs to travel through the heap once, instead of
</I>&gt;<i> Mark-Compact that needs to travel through at least twice) than a
</I>&gt;<i> Mark-Compact collector. But in practice, I have read that they are very
</I>&gt;<i> similar (<A HREF="http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Hans_Boehm/gc/complexity.html,">http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Hans_Boehm/gc/complexity.html,</A>
</I>&gt;<i> this site talks about a Mark-Sweep collector, but the complexity of
</I>&gt;<i> Mark-Compact it will be very similar to a Mark-Compact one).
</I>
Huh? Did you mean to say that the complexity of Mark-Sweep will be
similar to the complexity of Mark-Compact?
&gt;<i> Personally, i think that a Mark-Compact will be better because we can
</I>&gt;<i> made Mono more compatible with .NET (.NET uses a Mark-Compact collector)
</I>&gt;<i> in this subject.
</I>
It will only be &quot;more compatible&quot; in the sense that the performance
characteristics might be a bit more similar. I think that is a very
low-priority goal.
--
Fergus Henderson &lt;<A HREF="mailto:fjh@cs.mu.oz.au">fjh@cs.mu.oz.au</A>&gt; | &quot;I have always known that the pursuit
The University of Melbourne | of excellence is a lethal habit&quot;
WWW: &lt;<A HREF="http://www.cs.mu.oz.au/~fjh">http://www.cs.mu.oz.au/~fjh</A>&gt; | -- the last words of T. S. Garp.
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<B>Paolo Molaro
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<PRE>On 08/13/03 Fergus Henderson wrote:
&gt;<i> &gt; If we're not going to achieve that, we might as well just keep using
</I>&gt;<i> &gt; libgc.
</I>&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;<i> I don't agree. For many applications we ought to be able to get
</I>&gt;<i> significantly better performance than libgc using a good copying or
</I>&gt;<i> mark/compact garbage collector. Also, there are advantages to using a
</I>&gt;<i> type-accurate collector rather than a conservative collector (e.g. more
</I>&gt;<i> predictable memory usage) which are desirable for some applications.
</I>&gt;<i> So type-accurate copying or compacting collection is desirable even
</I>&gt;<i> if it is not incremental.
</I>[...]
&gt;<i> In the short to medium term, I think implementing a type-accurate
</I>&gt;<i> collector and integrating it with the rest of the Mono implementation
</I>&gt;<i> is already a complex task, so I think we should start off simple,
</I>
I agree with Fergus here. Just doing a precise collector is hard,
specially when considering that in the CLR managed&lt;-&gt;unmanaged
transitions are quite common and need to be handled correctly.
Moving the objects around could be considered just a way to test
the pointer-tracking implementation more than anything else;-)
Tracking the pointers in the heap is very easy: the issue is with
tracking them on the stack/registers. There are papers, though, about
scanning stack/regs conservatively and avoiding copies of objects
that could be referenced from there: this might be a possible convenient
compromise.
I would also like to point out some features required by the CLR
that need to be taken into account when designing a replacement for
libgc:
*) pinning (an object may be marked as non-moving for some periods of time)
*) weak references
*) finalization issues
lupus
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------
<A HREF="mailto:lupus@debian.org">lupus@debian.org</A> debian/rules
<A HREF="mailto:lupus@ximian.com">lupus@ximian.com</A> Monkeys do it better
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<H1>[Mono-gc-list] My arguments
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<B>Fernando Diaz
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<I>13 Aug 2003 13:46:22 +0200</I>
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<PRE>El mi=E9, 13 de 08 de 2003 a las 11:22, Fergus Henderson escribi=F3:
&gt;<i> On 13-Aug-2003, Fernando Diaz &lt;<A HREF="mailto:fdiaz@igalia.com">fdiaz@igalia.com</A>&gt; wrote:
</I>&gt;<i> &gt;=20
</I>&gt;<i> &gt; At the last version of Mono (0.25), lihgc is working with the metadata
</I>&gt;<i> &gt; of the objects as the libgc works with GJC (GNU Java Compiler). This is
</I>&gt;<i> &gt; and advantage because makes the collector less conservative and more
</I>&gt;<i> &gt; accuracy. In spite of the fact, libgc isn't a good collector for Mono,
</I>&gt;<i> &gt; because it can take advantage of the complete metadata that Mono
</I>&gt;<i> &gt; provides, it only uses a piece of metadata.
</I>&gt;<i>=20
</I>&gt;<i> I think you meant to say it _can't_ take advantage.=20
</I>&gt;<i> That's right, the C stack is still scanned conservatively.
</I>
Yes, i wanted to say that it can't thake advantage.
&gt;<i> &gt; In theory, a copying one needs more space (the double than Mark-Compact=
</I>)
&gt;<i> &gt; and less time (only needs to travel through the heap once, instead of
</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Mark-Compact that needs to travel through at least twice) than a
</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Mark-Compact collector. But in practice, I have read that they are very
</I>&gt;<i> &gt; similar (<A HREF="http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Hans_Boehm/gc/complexity.html,">http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Hans_Boehm/gc/complexity.html,</A>
</I>&gt;<i> &gt; this site talks about a Mark-Sweep collector, but the complexity of
</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Mark-Compact it will be very similar to a Mark-Compact one).
</I>&gt;<i>=20
</I>&gt;<i> Huh? Did you mean to say that the complexity of Mark-Sweep will be
</I>&gt;<i> similar to the complexity of Mark-Compact?
</I>
No!!! :). I know that a Mark-Compact algorithm complexity is bigger than
a Mark-Sweep one. Because Mark-Sweep doesn't need to move the data and
rebuild the references. My argument was wrong...
What i want to say is that both alternatives (Copying and Mark-Compact)
have a similar complexity. Mark-Compact needs to travel through the heap
at least twice (depending on the technique we use, in the two-finger
algorithm we need to travel it twice, the Lisp 2 algorithm need to
travel through the heap for three times, table-based and threaded
algorithms needs to travel through it twice too), while Copying need to
travel through the heap only once. On the other side, a Mark-Compact
collector need the half of the size of the heap that a Copying collector
needs.=20
If we look into the amortized cost of a collection with both techniques
when the amount of live objects in the heap are almost all (in my
opinion it is the common situation), the amortized cost (calculated
dividing the time spent collecting by the amount of garbage reclaimed)
is very similar (using an alternative inside the Mark-Compact algorithm
that needs two passes over the heap).
Don't you think so?
Respecting the locality of data for computers with virtual or cache
memory (nowadays almost all), Mark-Compact have a better behaviour than
Copying. All of this it depends on the alternative inside each algorithm
that choose, but in general the locality of Copying techniques is less
than the locality of Mark-Compact techniques. The alternatives inside
the Mark-Compact algorithms that keep the locality of data (LISP2, Table
Based and Threaded), are more expensive than others that don't take this
advantage (Two-Finger). Inside the Copying techniques, the Cheney
algorithm (Copying with an width search algorithm) doesn't take
advantage of the locality, a Copying algorithm with a depth search is
very expensive because of it is a bad alternative. A hybrid search
(mixing depth and width techniques) takes a little advantage of the
locality and it's amortized cost is similar to a table-based or threaded
Mark-Compact collector.
In my opinion, both alternatives are very similar.
&gt;<i> &gt; Personally, i think that a Mark-Compact will be better because we can
</I>&gt;<i> &gt; made Mono more compatible with .NET (.NET uses a Mark-Compact collector=
</I>)
&gt;<i> &gt; in this subject.
</I>&gt;<i>=20
</I>&gt;<i> It will only be &quot;more compatible&quot; in the sense that the performance
</I>&gt;<i> characteristics might be a bit more similar. I think that is a very
</I>&gt;<i> low-priority goal.
</I>
You are right. It isn't a goal for the collector, but on equality of
conditions, this things help us to decide among the techniques.
The copying collection is simplier to implement than a Mark-Compact
collector, but, in your opinion, What is the best?. I know that they are
a lot of different implementations for this algorithms, but in general,
What is the best for Mono from your point of view?.
I think that i am going to start the first prototype with a Copying
algorithm. After, modify it to make a Mark-Compact collector i think
that won't be very complex.
Thanks again!.
Regards.
--=20
Fernando Diaz &lt;<A HREF="mailto:fdiaz@igalia.com">fdiaz@igalia.com</A>&gt;
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<B>David Jeske
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<I>Wed, 13 Aug 2003 14:27:04 -0700</I>
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<PRE>Here are my preferences:
1) mark-sweep
2) mark-compact
3) copying
I prefer mark-sweep to copying, because the real-world memory overhead
of fragmentation is generally lower than 2x, and it does less work
since it does not have to copy live data for every collection.
I prefer mark-compact over copying, because it uses less memory, and
has greater potential for incremental or concurrent work.
IMO, compaction/copying is only useful in certain circumstances, for
example, preventing young-generation only objects from fragmenting the
heap, and making young-generation allocation really fast. The old
generation shouldn't use a copying collector, and it probably does not
need to be compacted.
This page by Hans Boehm sums up my thoughts pretty well:
<A HREF="http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Hans_Boehm/gc/complexity.html">http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Hans_Boehm/gc/complexity.html</A>
&gt;<i> The copying collection is simplier to implement than a Mark-Compact
</I>&gt;<i> collector, but, in your opinion, What is the best?. I know that they are
</I>&gt;<i> a lot of different implementations for this algorithms, but in general,
</I>&gt;<i> What is the best for Mono from your point of view?.
</I>
IMO, copying collectors are good for small heaps such as in young
generations. Doing copying collection of a 200MB+ live heap is not
good.
&gt;<i> I think that i am going to start the first prototype with a Copying
</I>&gt;<i> algorithm. After, modify it to make a Mark-Compact collector i think
</I>&gt;<i> that won't be very complex.
</I>
If you prototype a copying collector, you can eventually use that as
the young generation and copy old objects into an old-generation which
uses mark-sweep with optional compaction.
--
David Jeske (N9LCA) + <A HREF="http://www.chat.net/~jeske/">http://www.chat.net/~jeske/</A> + <A HREF="mailto:jeske@chat.net">jeske@chat.net</A>
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<B>Fernando Diaz
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<I>14 Aug 2003 13:17:05 +0200</I>
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<PRE>Hi guys!.
I would like you to give me your opinion about the alternatives for the
pinned objects collection.
If you take a look to the .NET, it uses a heap for pinned and not pinned
objets and a Mark-Compact collector. Depending on the time that the
pinned objects have to be pinned it is a good idea, but when the pinned
objects have pinned for a long time I think that it will be better to
have two heaps, one for pinned objects and other for non-pinned objects.
The pinned-heap will be collected with a non moving collector. But all
of this depends on the time that an object is pinned.
What is your opinion about this? Will it be better a single heap or a
heap for pinned objects and a heap for non-pinned objects?
Thanks.
Regards.
--
Fernando Diaz &lt;<A HREF="mailto:fdiaz@igalia.com">fdiaz@igalia.com</A>&gt;
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<B>Paolo Molaro
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<I>Fri, 15 Aug 2003 11:52:02 +0200</I>
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<PRE>On 08/14/03 Fernando Diaz wrote:
&gt;<i> If you take a look to the .NET, it uses a heap for pinned and not pinned
</I>&gt;<i> objets and a Mark-Compact collector. Depending on the time that the
</I>&gt;<i> pinned objects have to be pinned it is a good idea, but when the pinned
</I>&gt;<i> objects have pinned for a long time I think that it will be better to
</I>&gt;<i> have two heaps, one for pinned objects and other for non-pinned objects.
</I>&gt;<i> The pinned-heap will be collected with a non moving collector. But all
</I>&gt;<i> of this depends on the time that an object is pinned.
</I>&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;<i> What is your opinion about this? Will it be better a single heap or a
</I>&gt;<i> heap for pinned objects and a heap for non-pinned objects?
</I>
Any object can be pinned at any time and you can't move an object
to another heap when it's pinned, it would have a big performance hit.
So it doesn't make sense to have a heap for pinned objects and one
for other objects.
lupus
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<B>David Jeske
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<I>Fri, 15 Aug 2003 10:50:27 -0700</I>
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<PRE>Pinned objects are another reason that I say the major heap should be
just mark-sweep with optional compaction.
It should be possible to compact objects 'around' the pinned objects
if this is interseting.
Most of the time I don't think compaction of the major heap is
necessary, just the &quot;young generation&quot; heap.
--
David Jeske (N9LCA) + <A HREF="http://www.chat.net/~jeske/">http://www.chat.net/~jeske/</A> + <A HREF="mailto:jeske@chat.net">jeske@chat.net</A>
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<H1>[Mono-gc-list] Fast allocation vs lightweight collection
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<B>Fernando Diaz
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<I>19 Aug 2003 10:47:22 +0200</I>
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<PRE>Hey guys!
I have a question for you again. What do you think is better a Fast
allocation process or a lightweight collection?. The algorithms that
provides a fast allocator should have a collector heavier than the
algorithms that provides a slow allocator. For example Mark-Sweep and
Mark-Compact. Mark-Sweep have a &quot;slow&quot; allocator and a fast collection
routine. Mark-Compact have a fast allocator and a slow collection
routine.
I think that in a application with an adjusted size of the heap, the
fact of having a fast allocator make the application faster than the
fact of having a fast collector. Because generally the number of
allocations is greater than the number of collections (note that we have
a good adjusted heap). But if a collection is needed, the time that it
going to consume will be bigger than the time necessary in a fast
collector with slow allocator.
What do you think that is better for Mono? A fast allocator and slow
collector or a slow allocator and fast collector?
I know that there are other parameters to consider, but I would like to
know your opinions in the common case.
Thanks.
Regards.
--
Fernando Diaz &lt;<A HREF="mailto:fdiaz@igalia.com">fdiaz@igalia.com</A>&gt;
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<I>Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:58:08 -0700</I>
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<PRE>On Tue, Aug 19, 2003 at 10:47:22AM +0200, Fernando Diaz wrote:
&gt;<i> I have a question for you again. What do you think is better a Fast
</I>&gt;<i> allocation process or a lightweight collection?
</I>
I think it is much more important to have a lightweight collector with
controllable worst-case pause times.
&gt;<i> I think that in a application with an adjusted size of the heap, the
</I>&gt;<i> fact of having a fast allocator make the application faster than the
</I>&gt;<i> fact of having a fast collector. Because generally the number of
</I>&gt;<i> allocations is greater than the number of collections (note that we have
</I>&gt;<i> a good adjusted heap). But if a collection is needed, the time that it
</I>&gt;<i> going to consume will be bigger than the time necessary in a fast
</I>&gt;<i> collector with slow allocator.
</I>
In appliactions where pauses are unacceptable, there is no way to
&quot;work around&quot; the problem.
Constant factor performance degredation is not relevant. Computers get
faster every year, it is easy to use more computers, and in the rare
windows of time where this is a problem for a specific application,
they are probably writing in C instead of C# anyhow.
In other words, I'm saying that if:
X = # of programs which won't tolorate GC pauses
Y = # of programs which won't tolorate 20% degredation (C-&gt;C#)
Z = # of programs which won't tolorate 10% allocation overhead
Then:
Z ~= 0 : most of these programs are in Y, not Z.
X &gt;&gt; Z : the number of programs which can be written in
Mono with a low-pause collector will be greater than
with a high-pause, low-overhead collector
--
David Jeske (N9LCA) + <A HREF="http://www.chat.net/~jeske/">http://www.chat.net/~jeske/</A> + <A HREF="mailto:jeske@chat.net">jeske@chat.net</A>
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<H1>[Mono-gc-list] Fast allocation vs lightweight collection
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<B>Michel Dagenais
</B>
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TITLE="[Mono-gc-list] Fast allocation vs lightweight collection">michel.dagenais@polymtl.ca
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<I>25 Aug 2003 12:33:48 -0400</I>
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<PRE>&gt;<i> &gt; I have a question for you again. What do you think is better a Fast
</I>&gt;<i> &gt; allocation process or a lightweight collection?
</I>
If you have not already, you may want to read the best reference on the
subject:
Garbage Collection: Algorithms for Automatic Dynamic Memory Management
by Richard Jones, Rafael Lins
&gt;<i> In appliactions where pauses are unacceptable, there is no way to
</I>&gt;<i> &quot;work around&quot; the problem.
</I>&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;<i> Constant factor performance degredation is not relevant. Computers get
</I>&gt;<i> faster every year, it is easy to use more computers, and in the rare
</I>&gt;<i> windows of time where this is a problem for a specific application,
</I>&gt;<i> they are probably writing in C instead of C# anyhow.
</I>
The performance overhead of garbage collection is somewhere between +20%
(reference counting with lots of pointer writes) and -5% (very efficient
generational collector which reduces the allocation time, improves the
memory locality and produces an overall improvement), with perhaps +5%
being typical. When comparing to C++ you also have to account for vector
bounds checking, null pointers... adding some more.
The real problem in most cases, and in almost all interactive
applications, is indeed garbage collection pauses.
I had experience with the development of an emergency call management
system written in Modula-3 where the pause times for a large heap were
of several seconds every few minutes. When we switched to an incremental
collection algorithm the pauses became much smaller (.1 or .2 seconds).
It was probably a bit less efficient CPU wise but only by a few percent.
One very important point that did not come out in the discussion is the
interaction between garbage collection and multi-threading. Most
algorithms need special treatment or are inapplicable in multi-threaded
environments. Reference counting, for instance, needs some form of
locking when updating the reference counts, unless you rely on the
application to do its own locking and not modify a pointer from two
threads.
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<B>David Jeske
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<I>Mon, 25 Aug 2003 09:19:59 -0700</I>
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<PRE>On Mon, Aug 25, 2003 at 12:33:48PM -0400, Michel Dagenais wrote:
&gt;<i> One very important point that did not come out in the discussion is the
</I>&gt;<i> interaction between garbage collection and multi-threading.
</I>
This is a good point. Multi-threaded applications make the GC pause
problem much more important. In a single threaded application, there
are sometimes reasonable moments to manually pause. However, in a
multithreaded app there is seldom a time where all of the threads
simultaneously reach a state where they will accept a pause. For
example, in a single threaded webserver, you can garbage collect after
you have finished rendering a page to the user, before you accept the
next one. However, in a multi-threaded webserver under load
(i.e. tomcat), all threads will never finish rendering page at the
same time, making any pause disruptive.
This is why I like the old architecture of mod_mono better than the
new single-process model. The single process model is going to pause
all threads to GC, while the multi-process mod_mono could hide it
inside the dead time after serving a request.
&gt;<i> Reference counting, for instance, needs some form of locking when
</I>&gt;<i> updating the reference counts, unless you rely on the application to
</I>&gt;<i> do its own locking and not modify a pointer from two threads.
</I>
Because objects are never moved, the only &quot;unsafe&quot; thing to do is
prematurely deallocate an object. This means that locking is only
required only if many mutators are doing the deallocation and
finalization.
This is a probem in a &quot;pure&quot; reference counting algorithm.
One modern ref-counting optimization is to use a hybrid scheme which
sweeps the stack and registers as part of a &quot;root set&quot;. This avoids
the need to ref-count very common activities such as local variable
manipulation and function argument passing. When using this scheme, a
refcount of zero only puts the object in the &quot;to be checked&quot;
state. The gc process has to quickly scan the root-set to determine
additional (uncounted) pointers and find out if the object is alive or
dead. This algorithm's synchronization primitive is a &quot;stop the world&quot;
event which involves scanning the stacks of all active threads and
refcount=0 objects. (much faster than the full heap scanning of most
heap gc).
In this algorithm, only the gc process handles deallocation, so the
mutators don't need to lock. I'm sure there is some research about
this which would be more thorough than my paragraph above.
I wonder if it is possible to do a cycle-finding algorithm which can
run fully concurrently -- locking againt the only 'unsafe' thing out
there, the gc thread which could decallocate objects. The only output
of the cycle-finding algorithm is a list of new objects &quot;to be
checked&quot; for dead and the cycle-information which proves that their
refcounts are too high. Intuitively it seems to me like this should be
doable as a background operation, because if threaded mutators made it
wrong, the real gc thread would find out during it's world stop.
--
David Jeske (N9LCA) + <A HREF="http://www.chat.net/~jeske/">http://www.chat.net/~jeske/</A> + <A HREF="mailto:jeske@chat.net">jeske@chat.net</A>
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<H1>[Mono-gc-list] Fast allocation vs lightweight collection
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<B>Paolo Molaro
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<I>Mon, 25 Aug 2003 19:12:27 +0200</I>
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<PRE>On 08/25/03 David Jeske wrote:
&gt;<i> &gt; Reference counting, for instance, needs some form of locking when
</I>&gt;<i> &gt; updating the reference counts, unless you rely on the application to
</I>&gt;<i> &gt; do its own locking and not modify a pointer from two threads.
</I>&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;<i> Because objects are never moved, the only &quot;unsafe&quot; thing to do is
</I>&gt;<i> prematurely deallocate an object. This means that locking is only
</I>&gt;<i> required only if many mutators are doing the deallocation and
</I>&gt;<i> finalization.
</I>
You need locks to increment/decrement the reference count:
count = 1
thread1 thread2 count
reg = count reg = count 1
reg = reg+1 reg = reg+1 1
count = reg ... 2
... count = reg 2
at this point count is 2, instead of 3.
Doing the increment/decrement atomically is very expensive: I don't
think refcounting is suitable as the GC mechanism in multithreaded
programs (unless you want to pay a big performance cost).
lupus
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------
<A HREF="mailto:lupus@debian.org">lupus@debian.org</A> debian/rules
<A HREF="mailto:lupus@ximian.com">lupus@ximian.com</A> Monkeys do it better
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<B>David Jeske
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<I>Mon, 25 Aug 2003 13:15:31 -0700</I>
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<PRE>On Mon, Aug 25, 2003 at 07:12:27PM +0200, Paolo Molaro wrote:
&gt;<i> &gt; Because objects are never moved, the only &quot;unsafe&quot; thing to do is
</I>&gt;<i> &gt; prematurely deallocate an object. This means that locking is only
</I>&gt;<i> &gt; required only if many mutators are doing the deallocation and
</I>&gt;<i> &gt; finalization.
</I>&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;<i> You need locks to increment/decrement the reference count:
</I>
It's pretty easy to avoid locking using the atomic test/set/exchange
operations of modern processors.
For example, x86 has &quot;cmpxchg&quot;, the psudocode of this operation is:
[ <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/bkartheek/files/chap6.htm">http://www.geocities.com/bkartheek/files/chap6.htm</A> ]
cmpxchg operand1, operand2 [ ax/al/eax = compare_to ]
if ({al/ax/eax} = operand1) then
zero := 1 ;Set the zero flag
operand1 := operand2
else
zero := 0 ;Clear the zero flag
{al/ax/eax} := operand1
endif
Using this, you can do:
try_again:
reg = mem(count)
compare_to = reg
reg = reg + 1 // or reg = reg -1
if (! cmpxchg mem(count),reg [ compare_to ] ) {
yeild(); // optional
goto try_again;
}
When two threads collide, this looks like:
thread1 thread2 mem(count)
reg = mem(count) reg = mem(count) 1
reg = reg+1 reg = reg+1 1
cmpxchg suceeds cmpxchg fails 2
... reg = mem(count) 2
reg = reg+1 2
cmpxchg suceeds 3
...
No locking required.
--
David Jeske (N9LCA) + <A HREF="http://www.chat.net/~jeske/">http://www.chat.net/~jeske/</A> + <A HREF="mailto:jeske@chat.net">jeske@chat.net</A>
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<B>Torstensson, Patrik
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<I>Tue, 26 Aug 2003 08:59:02 +0100</I>
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<PRE>Hello guys,=20
&gt;<i> It's pretty easy to avoid locking using the atomic test/set/exchange
</I>&gt;<i> operations of modern processors.
</I>&gt;<i> For example, x86 has &quot;cmpxchg&quot;, the psudocode of this operation is:
</I>&gt;<i>=20
</I>&gt;<i> [ <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/bkartheek/files/chap6.htm">http://www.geocities.com/bkartheek/files/chap6.htm</A> ]
</I>&gt;<i>=20
</I>&gt;<i> cmpxchg operand1, operand2 [ ax/al/eax =3D compare_to =
</I>]
&gt;<i>=20
</I>&gt;<i> if ({al/ax/eax} =3D operand1) then
</I>&gt;<i>=20
</I>&gt;<i> zero :=3D 1 ;Set the zero flag
</I>&gt;<i> operand1 :=3D operand2
</I>&gt;<i>=20
</I>&gt;<i> else
</I>&gt;<i>=20
</I>&gt;<i> zero :=3D 0 ;Clear the zero flag
</I>&gt;<i> {al/ax/eax} :=3D operand1
</I>&gt;<i>=20
</I>&gt;<i> endif
</I>&gt;<i>=20
</I>&gt;<i> Using this, you can do:
</I>&gt;<i>=20
</I>&gt;<i> try_again:
</I>&gt;<i> reg =3D mem(count)
</I>&gt;<i> compare_to =3D reg
</I>&gt;<i> reg =3D reg + 1 // or reg =3D reg -1
</I>&gt;<i> if (! cmpxchg mem(count),reg [ compare_to ] ) {
</I>&gt;<i> yeild(); // optional
</I>&gt;<i> goto try_again; =20
</I>&gt;<i> }=20
</I>&gt;<i>=20
</I>&gt;<i> When two threads collide, this looks like:
</I>&gt;<i> =20
</I>&gt;<i> thread1 thread2 mem(count)
</I>&gt;<i> reg =3D mem(count) reg =3D mem(count) 1
</I>&gt;<i> reg =3D reg+1 reg =3D reg+1 1
</I>&gt;<i> cmpxchg suceeds cmpxchg fails 2
</I>&gt;<i> ... reg =3D mem(count) 2
</I>&gt;<i> reg =3D reg+1 2
</I>&gt;<i> cmpxchg suceeds 3
</I>&gt;<i> ...
</I>&gt;<i>=20
</I>&gt;<i> No locking required.
</I>
Not really true. The cmpxchg (and other) will lock the CPU cache (or
cause a cache invalid signal to happen) on a x86. This causes serious
performance problems (it's better than a kernel lock but still..), the
CPU needs to refetch data into the cache again.
The biggest issue with the cache locking is that the performance hit
increases with the number of CPU:s. There is schemas to minimize the
locking for example building locks by using read and write operations
only (they are atomic on x86) and use a kernel lock when you need to
wait (spinning first).
Still, Paolo is right, reference counting is very expensive for
Multithreaded programs even if you use x86 specific helper functions.=20
(and another thing, the yield instruction is very important in that loop
if you want performance on a SMP box (use the PAUSE instruciton on the
new CPU:s))
Cheers,
Patrik Torstensson
=20
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<B>David Jeske
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<I>Tue, 26 Aug 2003 01:19:03 -0700</I>
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<PRE>On Tue, Aug 26, 2003 at 08:59:02AM +0100, Torstensson, Patrik wrote:
&gt;<i> Not really true. The cmpxchg (and other) will lock the CPU cache (or
</I>&gt;<i> cause a cache invalid signal to happen) on a x86. This causes serious
</I>&gt;<i> performance problems
</I>
&gt;<i> (it's better than a kernel lock but still..)
</I>
That is quite an understatement. I don't have a manual handy to look
up the numbers, but my gut ballparks that the kernel context switch,
probable TLB flush, plus the cache invalidation which is required for
the kernel locks anyhow will come in at over 10x of the cost of L1/L2
cache invalidation alone in overall performance cost.
&gt;<i> Still, Paolo is right, reference counting is very expensive for
</I>&gt;<i> Multithreaded programs even if you use x86 specific helper functions.
</I>
I think we have a disagreement about what it means to be &quot;very
expensive&quot;. The 1 second worst case pause time of most &quot;modern&quot; GC
systems is very expensive to me. It usually means I can't write
software with them and have to resort to C, C++, or a ref-counted
system like Python. I don't mind a 10%, 20% or sometimes even 30%
performance hit, as long as it is spread evenly throughout the
program.
For me, ANY pausing scheme is &quot;very expensive&quot;, and ANY incremental
scheme with bounded worst-case pauses is acceptable.
Compared to other incremental schemes, reference counting adds some
cost to the mutator in exchange for greater throughput when memory is
being turned over quickly.
The write-barrier of a tri-color scheme is possibly less costly, but
yeilds more work for the incremental collector to do.
--
David Jeske (N9LCA) + <A HREF="http://www.chat.net/~jeske/">http://www.chat.net/~jeske/</A> + <A HREF="mailto:jeske@chat.net">jeske@chat.net</A>
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<H1>[Mono-gc-list] Fast allocation vs lightweight collection
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<B>Paolo Molaro
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<I>Thu, 28 Aug 2003 17:50:04 +0200</I>
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<PRE>On 08/26/03 David Jeske wrote:
&gt;<i> On Tue, Aug 26, 2003 at 08:59:02AM +0100, Torstensson, Patrik wrote:
</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Not really true. The cmpxchg (and other) will lock the CPU cache (or
</I>&gt;<i> &gt; cause a cache invalid signal to happen) on a x86. This causes serious
</I>&gt;<i> &gt; performance problems
</I>&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;<i> &gt; (it's better than a kernel lock but still..)
</I>&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;<i> That is quite an understatement. I don't have a manual handy to look
</I>&gt;<i> up the numbers, but my gut ballparks that the kernel context switch,
</I>&gt;<i> probable TLB flush, plus the cache invalidation which is required for
</I>&gt;<i> the kernel locks anyhow will come in at over 10x of the cost of L1/L2
</I>&gt;<i> cache invalidation alone in overall performance cost.
</I>
There is no need to go with kernel-based locks, a spinlock would be
sufficient if there are no suitable atomic instructions or sequences
available for a platform. Still, even if there isn't a function call
with 'lock' in the name, the atomic instructions are expensive
and they add up to the speed overhead that thread-unsafe reference
counting already has.
There is also branch prediction trashing before each inc/dec, since you
need to make sure the reference is not NULL.
&gt;<i> I think we have a disagreement about what it means to be &quot;very
</I>&gt;<i> expensive&quot;. The 1 second worst case pause time of most &quot;modern&quot; GC
</I>&gt;<i> systems is very expensive to me. It usually means I can't write
</I>&gt;<i> software with them and have to resort to C, C++, or a ref-counted
</I>&gt;<i> system like Python. I don't mind a 10%, 20% or sometimes even 30%
</I>&gt;<i> performance hit, as long as it is spread evenly throughout the
</I>&gt;<i> program.
</I>
Many disagree with you on the price people is willing to pay, but fear
not: this is free software and proving your point is just a SMOP:-)
You can start adding an integer counter to the MonoObject struct in
metadata/object.h and adding the proper atomic inc/dec instructions
whenever a reference is written or read.
&gt;<i> For me, ANY pausing scheme is &quot;very expensive&quot;, and ANY incremental
</I>&gt;<i> scheme with bounded worst-case pauses is acceptable.
</I>
I guess you mean unbounded? Reference counting can have unbounded delays
when deallocating, too, though I agree they can be more 'unlikely'.
&gt;<i> Compared to other incremental schemes, reference counting adds some
</I>&gt;<i> cost to the mutator in exchange for greater throughput when memory is
</I>&gt;<i> being turned over quickly.
</I>&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;<i> The write-barrier of a tri-color scheme is possibly less costly, but
</I>&gt;<i> yeilds more work for the incremental collector to do.
</I>
I think the first steps to do if we want to improve or experiment with
the GC in mono are these:
*) make sure we can identify precisely all and only the managed
pointers, in the heap, the stack and the registers. This alone is a big
task. A tweaked libgc that moves the objects around randomly at each
collection can help to shake out the bugs.
*) define an interface for pluggable GCs, so that anyone can get to
experiment with thier preferred GC model.
As I see it, implementing the actual GC algorithm is the easy part
and can only be done after the first step is accomplished.
lupus
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------
<A HREF="mailto:lupus@debian.org">lupus@debian.org</A> debian/rules
<A HREF="mailto:lupus@ximian.com">lupus@ximian.com</A> Monkeys do it better
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<I>Michel Dagenais
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<I>David Jeske
</I>
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<!--0 01061902742- -->
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</A><A NAME="34">&nbsp;</A>
<I>Torstensson, Patrik
</I>
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<!--1 01061902742-01061903943- -->
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<I>David Jeske
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<UL>
<!--2 01061902742-01061903943-01062103804- -->
<LI><A HREF="000036.html">[Mono-gc-list] Fast allocation vs lightweight collection
</A><A NAME="36">&nbsp;</A>
<I>Paolo Molaro
</I>
</UL>
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</ul>
<p>
<a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a>
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<p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Tue Aug 12 09:56:40 2003</i><br>
<b>Ending:</b> <i>Thu Aug 28 16:50:04 2003</i><br>
<b>Messages:</b> 26<p>
<ul>
<LI><A HREF="000011.html">[Mono-gc-list] Copying or Mark-Compact collector?
</A><A NAME="11">&nbsp;</A>
<I>Fernando Diaz
</I>
<LI><A HREF="000012.html">[Mono-gc-list] Copying or Mark-Compact collector?
</A><A NAME="12">&nbsp;</A>
<I>Dick Porter
</I>
<LI><A HREF="000013.html">[Mono-gc-list] Copying or Mark-Compact collector?
</A><A NAME="13">&nbsp;</A>
<I>Fernando Diaz
</I>
<LI><A HREF="000016.html">[Mono-gc-list] Copying or Mark-Compact collector?
</A><A NAME="16">&nbsp;</A>
<I>David Jeske
</I>
<LI><A HREF="000028.html">[Mono-gc-list] Fast allocation vs lightweight collection
</A><A NAME="28">&nbsp;</A>
<I>Fernando Diaz
</I>
<LI><A HREF="000029.html">[Mono-gc-list] Fast allocation vs lightweight collection
</A><A NAME="29">&nbsp;</A>
<I>David Jeske
</I>
<LI><A HREF="000031.html">[Mono-gc-list] Fast allocation vs lightweight collection
</A><A NAME="31">&nbsp;</A>
<I>David Jeske
</I>
<LI><A HREF="000030.html">[Mono-gc-list] Fast allocation vs lightweight collection
</A><A NAME="30">&nbsp;</A>
<I>Michel Dagenais
</I>
<LI><A HREF="000032.html">[Mono-gc-list] Fast allocation vs lightweight collection
</A><A NAME="32">&nbsp;</A>
<I>Paolo Molaro
</I>
<LI><A HREF="000033.html">[Mono-gc-list] Fast allocation vs lightweight collection
</A><A NAME="33">&nbsp;</A>
<I>David Jeske
</I>
<LI><A HREF="000034.html">[Mono-gc-list] Fast allocation vs lightweight collection
</A><A NAME="34">&nbsp;</A>
<I>Torstensson, Patrik
</I>
<LI><A HREF="000035.html">[Mono-gc-list] Fast allocation vs lightweight collection
</A><A NAME="35">&nbsp;</A>
<I>David Jeske
</I>
<LI><A HREF="000036.html">[Mono-gc-list] Fast allocation vs lightweight collection
</A><A NAME="36">&nbsp;</A>
<I>Paolo Molaro
</I>
<LI><A HREF="000014.html">[Mono-gc-list] My arguments
</A><A NAME="14">&nbsp;</A>
<I>Fernando Diaz
</I>
<LI><A HREF="000015.html">[Mono-gc-list] My arguments
</A><A NAME="15">&nbsp;</A>
<I>Fergus Henderson
</I>
<LI><A HREF="000017.html">[Mono-gc-list] My arguments
</A><A NAME="17">&nbsp;</A>
<I>David Jeske
</I>
<LI><A HREF="000018.html">[Mono-gc-list] My arguments
</A><A NAME="18">&nbsp;</A>
<I>Fergus Henderson
</I>
<LI><A HREF="000019.html">[Mono-gc-list] My arguments
</A><A NAME="19">&nbsp;</A>
<I>David Jeske
</I>
<LI><A HREF="000020.html">[Mono-gc-list] My arguments
</A><A NAME="20">&nbsp;</A>
<I>Fernando Diaz
</I>
<LI><A HREF="000021.html">[Mono-gc-list] My arguments
</A><A NAME="21">&nbsp;</A>
<I>Fergus Henderson
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<LI><A HREF="000022.html">[Mono-gc-list] My arguments
</A><A NAME="22">&nbsp;</A>
<I>Paolo Molaro
</I>
<LI><A HREF="000023.html">[Mono-gc-list] My arguments
</A><A NAME="23">&nbsp;</A>
<I>Fernando Diaz
</I>
<LI><A HREF="000024.html">[Mono-gc-list] My arguments
</A><A NAME="24">&nbsp;</A>
<I>David Jeske
</I>
<LI><A HREF="000025.html">[Mono-gc-list] Pinned objects
</A><A NAME="25">&nbsp;</A>
<I>Fernando Diaz
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</A><A NAME="26">&nbsp;</A>
<I>Paolo Molaro
</I>
<LI><A HREF="000027.html">[Mono-gc-list] Pinned objects
</A><A NAME="27">&nbsp;</A>
<I>David Jeske
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</ul>
<p>
<a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a>
<i>Thu Aug 28 16:50:04 2003</i><br>
<b>Archived on:</b> <i>Thu Aug 28 11:48:07 2003</i>
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<p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Tue Aug 12 09:56:40 2003</i><br>
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<b>Messages:</b> 26<p>
<ul>
<!--0 01060696600- -->
<LI><A HREF="000011.html">[Mono-gc-list] Copying or Mark-Compact collector?
</A><A NAME="11">&nbsp;</A>
<I>Fernando Diaz
</I>
<UL>
<!--1 01060696600-01060700904- -->
<LI><A HREF="000012.html">[Mono-gc-list] Copying or Mark-Compact collector?
</A><A NAME="12">&nbsp;</A>
<I>Dick Porter
</I>
<UL>
<!--2 01060696600-01060700904-01060702710- -->
<LI><A HREF="000013.html">[Mono-gc-list] Copying or Mark-Compact collector?
</A><A NAME="13">&nbsp;</A>
<I>Fernando Diaz
</I>
</UL>
<!--1 01060696600-01060736487- -->
<LI><A HREF="000016.html">[Mono-gc-list] Copying or Mark-Compact collector?
</A><A NAME="16">&nbsp;</A>
<I>David Jeske
</I>
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<!--0 01060705293- -->
<LI><A HREF="000014.html">[Mono-gc-list] My arguments
</A><A NAME="14">&nbsp;</A>
<I>Fernando Diaz
</I>
<UL>
<!--1 01060705293-01060710801- -->
<LI><A HREF="000015.html">[Mono-gc-list] My arguments
</A><A NAME="15">&nbsp;</A>
<I>Fergus Henderson
</I>
<!--1 01060705293-01060739670- -->
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<I>David Jeske
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<!--2 01060705293-01060739670-01060771469- -->
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<I>Fergus Henderson
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<!--3 01060705293-01060739670-01060771469-01060776310- -->
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<I>David Jeske
</I>
<!--3 01060705293-01060739670-01060771469-01060776310-01060782984- -->
<LI><A HREF="000020.html">[Mono-gc-list] My arguments
</A><A NAME="20">&nbsp;</A>
<I>Fernando Diaz
</I>
<!--3 01060705293-01060739670-01060771469-01060776310-01060782984-01060784548- -->
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<I>Fergus Henderson
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<!--3 01060705293-01060739670-01060771469-01060776310-01060782984-01060784548-01060793182- -->
<LI><A HREF="000023.html">[Mono-gc-list] My arguments
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<I>Fernando Diaz
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<I>David Jeske
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<!--3 01060705293-01060739670-01060771469-01060787943- -->
<LI><A HREF="000022.html">[Mono-gc-list] My arguments
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<I>Paolo Molaro
</I>
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<!--0 01060877825- -->
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<I>Fernando Diaz
</I>
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<!--1 01060877825-01060959122- -->
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<I>Paolo Molaro
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<I>David Jeske
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<!--0 01061300842- -->
<LI><A HREF="000028.html">[Mono-gc-list] Fast allocation vs lightweight collection
</A><A NAME="28">&nbsp;</A>
<I>Fernando Diaz
</I>
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<!--1 01061300842-01061366288- -->
<LI><A HREF="000029.html">[Mono-gc-list] Fast allocation vs lightweight collection
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<I>David Jeske
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<!--2 01061300842-01061366288-01061847228- -->
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<I>Michel Dagenais
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<!--3 01061300842-01061366288-01061847228-01061846399- -->
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<I>Paolo Molaro
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<!--3 01061300842-01061366288-01061847228-01061846399-01061849547-01061860531- -->
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<I>David Jeske
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<!--0 01061902742- -->
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<I>Torstensson, Patrik
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<!--1 01061902742-01061903943- -->
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<I>David Jeske
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<p>
<a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a>
<i>Thu Aug 28 16:50:04 2003</i><br>
<b>Archived on:</b> <i>Thu Aug 28 11:48:07 2003</i>
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<H1>[Mono-gc-list] Interface del runtime de mono con el recolector
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<B>Fernando Diaz
</B>
<A HREF="mailto:fdiaz%40igalia.com"
TITLE="[Mono-gc-list] Interface del runtime de mono con el recolector">fdiaz@igalia.com
</A><BR>
<I>17 Jul 2003 10:59:55 +0200</I>
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<PRE>Hola, mi nombre es Fernando y estoy haciendo un estudio sobre la
recolecci=F3n de basuras en mono. Me gustar=EDa saber si alguno tiene
informaci=F3n sobre la interface que usa mono con el recolector de Boehm y
sobre la informaci=F3n de los objetos de la que puede disponer el
recolector.
Saludos. Fernando.
</PRE>
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<H1>[Mono-gc-list] Interface del runtime de mono con el recolector
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<B>Dick Porter
</B>
<A HREF="mailto:dick%40ximian.com"
TITLE="[Mono-gc-list] Interface del runtime de mono con el recolector">dick@ximian.com
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<I>17 Jul 2003 14:09:36 +0100</I>
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<PRE>On Thu, 2003-07-17 at 09:59, Fernando Diaz wrote:
&gt;<i> Hola, mi nombre es Fernando y estoy haciendo un estudio sobre la
</I>&gt;<i> recolecci=F3n de basuras en mono. Me gustar=EDa saber si alguno tiene
</I>&gt;<i> informaci=F3n sobre la interface que usa mono con el recolector de Boehm =
</I>y
&gt;<i> sobre la informaci=F3n de los objetos de la que puede disponer el
</I>&gt;<i> recolector.
</I>
My Spanish colleague gave me the translation: &quot;I'm doing a study about
garbage collection in Mono. I'd like to know if someone has information
about the interface that Mono uses with the Boehm garbage collector and
about the information of the objects that the garbage collector can
access&quot;
I'm not sure what you mean here though. In the runtime engine, we
allocate objects with GC_malloc() and friends. The interface exposed to
applications is defined in the System.GC namespace, in the corlib
assembly.
We use the libgc in its normal &quot;Stop-the-world&quot; collection
configuration. We have a dedicated thread for executing object
finalisers.
I'm don't think there's anything more to be described.
- Dick
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<H1>[Mono-gc-list] About void *gc_descr in MonoVTable
</H1>
<B>Fernando Diaz
</B>
<A HREF="mailto:fdiaz%40igalia.com"
TITLE="[Mono-gc-list] About void *gc_descr in MonoVTable">fdiaz@igalia.com
</A><BR>
<I>21 Jul 2003 13:01:12 +0200</I>
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<PRE>Hi guys. Anybody knows what is the use of the field void *gc_descr in
the MonoVTable struct?.
Thanks.
Fernando D=EDaz
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<A HREF="mailto:dick%40ximian.com"
TITLE="[Mono-gc-list] About void *gc_descr in MonoVTable">dick@ximian.com
</A><BR>
<I>21 Jul 2003 12:49:18 +0100</I>
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<PRE>On Mon, 2003-07-21 at 12:01, Fernando Diaz wrote:
&gt;<i> Hi guys. Anybody knows what is the use of the field void *gc_descr in
</I>&gt;<i> the MonoVTable struct?.
</I>
Ah, if you are trying to find information about the Mono changes in
libgc, you'll need to ask Martin Baulig (<A HREF="mailto:martin@ximian.com.">martin@ximian.com.</A>) I'm not
sure he reads this list, so I've CC'd him.
- Dick
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<B>Paolo Molaro
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TITLE="[Mono-gc-list] About void *gc_descr in MonoVTable">lupus@ximian.com
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<I>Mon, 21 Jul 2003 15:11:40 +0200</I>
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<PRE>On 07/21/03 Fernando Diaz wrote:
&gt;<i> Hi guys. Anybody knows what is the use of the field void *gc_descr in
</I>&gt;<i> the MonoVTable struct?.
</I>
It's a GC descriptor, check mono_class_compute_gc_descriptor() in
object.c. It's used to tell the Boehm GC which fields in an object
are object references that need to be GC-tracked.
lupus
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------
<A HREF="mailto:lupus@debian.org">lupus@debian.org</A> debian/rules
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<B>Fernando Diaz
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<I>23 Jul 2003 09:49:52 +0200</I>
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<PRE>Hi again!.
I hava another question for the list.
Are the unmaganed pointers (that mentions the ECMA-335 standard) the
same as the weak references (that exists in the .NET garbage collector)?
Both references aren't used by the collector to make de reachable graph,
but i don't know if they are the same.
Thanks.
Fernando D=EDaz
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<B>Fergus Henderson
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<I>Wed, 23 Jul 2003 18:58:23 +1000</I>
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<PRE>On 23-Jul-2003, Fernando Diaz &lt;<A HREF="mailto:fdiaz@igalia.com">fdiaz@igalia.com</A>&gt; wrote:
&gt;<i> I hava another question for the list.
</I>&gt;<i> Are the unmaganed pointers (that mentions the ECMA-335 standard) the
</I>&gt;<i> same as the weak references (that exists in the .NET garbage collector)?
</I>
No.
Unmanaged pointers must not point into the managed heap.
They are ignored by the garbage collector.
Weak references, on the other hand, do point into the managed heap,
and will get updated by the collector if the object that they point to
gets relocated.
The difference between weak references and ordinary (managed) references
is that weak references will not keep an object alive; if the only
references to an object are weak references, the collector will reclaim
the object and will set the weak references to null.
--
Fergus Henderson &lt;<A HREF="mailto:fjh@cs.mu.oz.au">fjh@cs.mu.oz.au</A>&gt; | &quot;I have always known that the pursuit
The University of Melbourne | of excellence is a lethal habit&quot;
WWW: &lt;<A HREF="http://www.cs.mu.oz.au/~fjh">http://www.cs.mu.oz.au/~fjh</A>&gt; | -- the last words of T. S. Garp.
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<B>Mohammad DAMT
</B>
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TITLE="[Mono-gc-list] Re: [Mono-devel-list] embedding mono with threads">mdamt@bisnisweb.com
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<I>Wed, 23 Jul 2003 23:26:17 +0700</I>
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<PRE>On 2003.07.21 22:49, eric lindvall wrote:
&gt;<i> who do i need to talk to, or what do i need to do to find out how to
</I>&gt;<i> fix
</I>&gt;<i> this?
</I>
Perhaps this is helping you guys tracing what's wrong with
mono_jit_init in a
thread.
Using gdb this is backtrace of oxide-3 core dump:
[<A HREF="mailto:mdamt@gordon">mdamt@gordon</A> oxide_test]$ gdb ./oxide-3 core.28509
GNU gdb 5.3-22mdk (Mandrake Linux)
Copyright 2002 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
GDB is free software, covered by the GNU General Public License, and
you are
welcome to change it and/or distribute copies of it under certain
conditions.
Type &quot;show copying&quot; to see the conditions.
There is absolutely no warranty for GDB. Type &quot;show warranty&quot; for
details.
This GDB was configured as &quot;i586-mandrake-linux-gnu&quot;...
Core was generated by `./oxide-3'.
Program terminated with signal 11, Segmentation fault.
Reading symbols from /opt/mono/lib/libmono.so.0...done.
Loaded symbols for /opt/mono/lib/libmono.so.0
Reading symbols from /lib/i686/libpthread.so.0...done.
Loaded symbols for /lib/i686/libpthread.so.0
Reading symbols from /lib/i686/libm.so.6...done.
Loaded symbols for /lib/i686/libm.so.6
Reading symbols from /usr/lib/libgmodule-2.0.so.0...done.
Loaded symbols for /usr/lib/libgmodule-2.0.so.0
Reading symbols from /lib/libdl.so.2...done.
Loaded symbols for /lib/libdl.so.2
Reading symbols from /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.so.0...done.
Loaded symbols for /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.so.0
Reading symbols from /lib/i686/libc.so.6...done.
Loaded symbols for /lib/i686/libc.so.6
Reading symbols from /opt/mono/lib/libmonogc.so.1...done.
Loaded symbols for /opt/mono/lib/libmonogc.so.1
Reading symbols from /lib/libnsl.so.1...done.
Loaded symbols for /lib/libnsl.so.1
Reading symbols from /lib/i686/librt.so.1...done.
Loaded symbols for /lib/i686/librt.so.1
Reading symbols from /lib/ld-linux.so.2...done.
Loaded symbols for /lib/ld-linux.so.2
#0 0x40370ef3 in GC_mark_from (mark_stack_top=0x8053110,
mark_stack=0x80530a8,
mark_stack_limit=0x805b0a8) at mark.c:647
647 deferred = *limit;
(gdb) bt
#0 0x40370ef3 in GC_mark_from (mark_stack_top=0x8053110,
mark_stack=0x80530a8,
mark_stack_limit=0x805b0a8) at mark.c:647
#1 0x40370bae in GC_mark_some (cold_gc_frame=0x40bb38b0 &quot;??&quot;) at mark.
c:374
#2 0x40368e96 in GC_stopped_mark (stop_func=0x40368700
&lt;GC_never_stop_func&gt;)
at alloc.c:500
#3 0x40368b63 in GC_try_to_collect_inner (stop_func=0x40368700
&lt;GC_never_stop_func&gt;) at alloc.c:353
#4 0x40373528 in GC_init_inner () at misc.c:703
#5 0x4036f3b5 in GC_generic_malloc_inner (lb=28, k=1) at malloc.c:123
#6 0x4036f503 in GC_generic_malloc (lb=28, k=1) at malloc.c:190
#7 0x4036f7e5 in GC_malloc (lb=28) at malloc.c:295
#8 0x400f4fac in mono_g_hash_table_new_full (hash_func=0x402053f0
&lt;g_direct_hash&gt;, key_equal_func=0x40205400 &lt;g_direct_equal&gt;,
key_destroy_func=0, value_destroy_func=0) at mono-hash.c:152
#9 0x400f4f86 in mono_g_hash_table_new (hash_func=0x402053f0
&lt;g_direct_hash&gt;,
key_equal_func=0x40205400 &lt;g_direct_equal&gt;) at mono-hash.c:122
#10 0x400f3ce7 in TlsSetValue (idx=0, value=0x804c738) at threads.c:795
#11 0x4004fe81 in mono_thread_start_cb (tid=16386,
stack_start=0xffffffff,
func=0x0) at mini.c:5543
#12 0x40053109 in mini_init (filename=0x8049260 &quot;oxide-domain&quot;) at
mini.c:6943
#13 0x4007640e in mono_jit_init (file=0x8049260 &quot;oxide-domain&quot;) at
driver.c:777
#14 0x08048d3a in oxideInit (p=0x0) at src/oxide-3.c:72
#15 0x4014d811 in pthread_start_thread () from /lib/i686/libpthread.
so.0
Is this a gc issue?
If I build mono without gc (--with-gc=none) I was able to run oxide-3
just to make sure that mono_jit_init () doesnt segfault or hangs, (then
the exception
backtrace below is not important).
FYI, mod_mono hangs on mono_jit_init if I switch to Apache with
prechild MPM
(threaded too).
$ ./oxide-3
Your mono runtime and corlib are out of sync.
Corlib is: /opt/mono/lib/corlib.dll
When you update one from cvs you need to update, compile and install
the other too.
Do not report this as a bug unless you're sure you have updated
correctly:
you probably have a broken mono install.
If you see other errors or faults after this message they are probably
related
and you need to fix your mono install first.
OXIDE: loaded assembly: oxide.dll
OXIDE: exit code: 0
OXIDE: successfully started.
OXIDE: calling mono_thread_attach (0x804c848)
** (process:29209): WARNING **: cant resolve internal call to &quot;System.
Reflection.MonoFieldInfo::get_field_info(System.Reflection.MonoField,
System.Reflection.MonoFieldInfo&amp;)&quot; (tested without signature also)
Unhandled Exception: System.NullReferenceException: A null value was
found where an object instance was required
in (unmanaged) /lib/i686/libc.so.6 [0x4029df80]
in (unmanaged) /lib/i686/libc.so.6(__libc_free+0x7c) [0x4029cdfc]
in (unmanaged) /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.so.0(g_free+0x23) [0x401e7ce3]
in (unmanaged) /opt/mono/lib/libmono.so.0(mono_class_setup_vtable
+0x117) [0x400e1180]
in (unmanaged) /opt/mono/lib/libmono.so.0(mono_class_init+0x49e)
[0x400e2638]
in (unmanaged) /opt/mono/lib/libmono.so.0(mono_class_vtable+0xdf)
[0x4009e39e]
in (unmanaged) /opt/mono/lib/libmono.so.0(mono_array_new+0x74)
[0x400a0465]
in (unmanaged) /opt/mono/lib/libmono.so.0 [0x400a657e]
--
Mohammad DAMT &lt;<A HREF="mailto:mdamt@bisnisweb.com">mdamt@bisnisweb.com</A>&gt;
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<H1>[Mono-gc-list] About gc_bitmap
</H1>
<B>Fernando Diaz
</B>
<A HREF="mailto:fdiaz%40igalia.com"
TITLE="[Mono-gc-list] About gc_bitmap">fdiaz@igalia.com
</A><BR>
<I>24 Jul 2003 10:03:11 +0200</I>
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<PRE>Hi.
If i understood correctly the soruce code of mono, the guint64 gc_bitmap
(in class.h) is a field of the _MonoClass struct that is used for saying
to the Boemhm's GC where are the links to another objects.
Is it correct?
If it is,Don't we are restricting the size of the atributtes of the
clasess?
Thanks. Fernando D=EDaz
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<li><b><a href="http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-gc-list">More info on this list...
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<p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Thu Jul 17 09:59:55 2003</i><br>
<b>Ending:</b> <i>Thu Jul 24 09:03:11 2003</i><br>
<b>Messages:</b> 9<p>
<ul>
<LI><A HREF="000009.html">[Mono-gc-list] Re: [Mono-devel-list] embedding mono with threads
</A><A NAME="9">&nbsp;</A>
<I>Mohammad DAMT
</I>
<LI><A HREF="000002.html">[Mono-gc-list] Interface del runtime de mono con el recolector
</A><A NAME="2">&nbsp;</A>
<I>Fernando Diaz
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<LI><A HREF="000004.html">[Mono-gc-list] About void *gc_descr in MonoVTable
</A><A NAME="4">&nbsp;</A>
<I>Fernando Diaz
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<LI><A HREF="000007.html">[Mono-gc-list] Weak references and unmanaged pointers...
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<I>Fernando Diaz
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<I>Fernando Diaz
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<I>Fergus Henderson
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<I>Dick Porter
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<LI><A HREF="000002.html">[Mono-gc-list] Interface del runtime de mono con el recolector
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<I>Fernando Diaz
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<H1>[Mono-gc-list] second mono compilation failed
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<B>Mateusz £oskot
</B>
<A HREF="mailto:m.loskot%40chello.pl"
TITLE="[Mono-gc-list] second mono compilation failed">m.loskot@chello.pl
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<I>Fri, 28 Mar 2003 22:26:03 +0100</I>
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<PRE>Hello,
I'd like to start very interesting journey with the mono and
its company ;)
SO, I compiled every source package required, compiler and runtime, etc.
After that, I wrote some sample console HelloWorls.cs and compiled
it succesfuly, and run it well.
Next, I compiled and installed gtk-sharp.
Everything went well.
The only problem is I can not compile and run any gtk-sharp based
sample.
When I try to compile sample gtk-sharp HelloWorld.cs I got:
####
HelloWorld.cs(26) error CS0246: Cannot find type `DeleteEventArgs'
Compilation failed: 1 error(s), 0 warnings
####
I tried to find some solution on the news groups, but there
was no working solution.
When I try to run samples compilet during gtk-sharp compilation and
installation I got error message to:
<A HREF="mailto:gekon@gekon">gekon@gekon</A>:/tmp/gtk-sharp-0.8/sample# mono gtk-hello-world.exe
Unhandled Exception: System.ExecutionEngineException: No GCHandle
support built-in
in (unmanaged) mono(mono_raise_exception+0x20) [0x80c12fe]
in (unmanaged) mono(ves_icall_System_GCHandle_GetTargetHandle+0x5f)
[0x80cd54d]
in &lt;0x00026&gt; 00 System.Runtime.InteropServices.GCHandle:Alloc
(object,System.Runtime.InteropServices.GCHandleType)
in &lt;0x0005b&gt; 00 System.WeakReference:AllocateHandle (object)
in &lt;0x0002a&gt; 00 System.WeakReference:.ctor (object,bool)
in &lt;0x00019&gt; 00 System.WeakReference:.ctor (object)
in &lt;0x0005d&gt; 00 GLib.Object:set_Raw (intptr)
in &lt;0x00016&gt; 00 Gtk.Object:set_Raw (intptr)
in &lt;0x00062&gt; 00 Gtk.Window:.ctor (Gtk.WindowType)
in &lt;0x00047&gt; 00 Gtk.Window:.ctor (string)
in &lt;0x00036&gt; 00 GtkSamples.HelloWorld:Main (string[])
I found on the Internet that there is garbage collector required.
So, I downloaded gc las version from go-mono.org , compilation
and installation went well.
I do everything described on www.go-mono.org (article for Beginners).
Next, I trie to compile mono again with gc support as described in
documentation.
Shortly after command make I got some strange error message:
[...cut....]
In file included from ../../mono/io-layer/handles-private.h:16,
from daemon.c:26:
../../mono/io-layer/wapi-private.h:25:2: #error configure failed to
discover size of unix socket path
make[3]: *** [daemon.lo] Error 1
make[3]: Leaving directory `/tmp/mono-0.23/mono/io-layer'
make[2]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
make[2]: Leaving directory `/tmp/mono-0.23/mono'
make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory `/tmp/mono-0.23'
make: *** [all-recursive-am] Error 2
I found only one information about that:
<A HREF="http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=mono-list&m=104878104919519&w=2">http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=mono-list&amp;m=104878104919519&amp;w=2</A>
But there is no useful suggestion for me.
I tried to find some information in config.log but I
could not figure out what is important in this file for the problem.
I downloaded every source yesterday, so I use latest versions.
I'm Slackware 9.0 user with kernel 2.4.20 and every
package comming with Slack 9.0 - nothing changed.
Please, could someone help me ?
I would like to manage to run gtk-sharp applications.
I'm going to create some software, and port from Windows, but it
is new problem for me and I'm not so experienced to solve it.
Best regards
--
Mateusz £oskot
E-mail: <A HREF="mailto:m.loskot@chello.pl">m.loskot@chello.pl</A> Mobile: +48 (0) 693456131
GNU/Linux (Slackware 9.0) <A HREF="http://counter.li.org:">http://counter.li.org:</A> #220771
GnuGP Key <A HREF="http://dendro.sggw.waw.pl/~mloskot/pgp/">http://dendro.sggw.waw.pl/~mloskot/pgp/</A>
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<H1>[Mono-gc-list] second mono compilation failed
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<B>Dick Porter
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<I>28 Mar 2003 22:47:43 +0000</I>
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<PRE>On Fri, 2003-03-28 at 21:26, Mateusz =A3oskot wrote:
&gt;<i> SO, I compiled every source package required, compiler and runtime, etc.
</I>&gt;<i> After that, I wrote some sample console HelloWorls.cs and compiled
</I>&gt;<i> it succesfuly, and run it well.
</I>
mono-gc-list is for the discussion of the implementation of the garbage
collector in the mono runtime. Problems building mono should be
addressed to <A HREF="mailto:mono-list@ximian.com.">mono-list@ximian.com.</A>
(I've followed up to the gc list so this goes in the archive.)
Now, to actually answer your questions...
&gt;<i> When I try to run samples compilet during gtk-sharp compilation and
</I>&gt;<i> installation I got error message to:
</I>&gt;<i>=20
</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="mailto:gekon@gekon">gekon@gekon</A>:/tmp/gtk-sharp-0.8/sample# mono gtk-hello-world.exe
</I>&gt;<i>=20
</I>&gt;<i> Unhandled Exception: System.ExecutionEngineException: No GCHandle=20
</I>&gt;<i> support built-in
</I>
gtk# relies on GC support in the runtime.
&gt;<i> Shortly after command make I got some strange error message:
</I>&gt;<i>=20
</I>&gt;<i> [...cut....]
</I>&gt;<i> In file included from ../../mono/io-layer/handles-private.h:16,
</I>&gt;<i> from daemon.c:26:
</I>&gt;<i> ../../mono/io-layer/wapi-private.h:25:2: #error configure failed to=20
</I>&gt;<i> discover size of unix socket path
</I>&gt;<i> make[3]: *** [daemon.lo] Error 1
</I>
There was a problem with your build - configure failed to discover the
size of the unix socket path field. I don't know how to make this
clearer.
&gt;<i>=20
</I>&gt;<i> But there is no useful suggestion for me.
</I>&gt;<i> I tried to find some information in config.log but I
</I>&gt;<i> could not figure out what is important in this file for the problem.
</I>
Search for &quot;sun_path&quot; in config.log, and see if there are errors logged
in the next few lines of output.
&gt;<i>=20
</I>&gt;<i> I downloaded every source yesterday, so I use latest versions.
</I>&gt;<i> I'm Slackware 9.0 user with kernel 2.4.20 and every
</I>&gt;<i> package comming with Slack 9.0 - nothing changed.
</I>&gt;<i>=20
</I>&gt;<i> Please, could someone help me ?
</I>&gt;<i> I would like to manage to run gtk-sharp applications.
</I>&gt;<i> I'm going to create some software, and port from Windows, but it
</I>&gt;<i> is new problem for me and I'm not so experienced to solve it.
</I>
If you can't build it successfully, then I can only suggest precompiled
versions (you can unpack the rpms with rpm2cpio to get the contents.)
There's a script available from <A HREF="http://www.go-mono.com/download.html">http://www.go-mono.com/download.html</A>
which should automate the mono build, but it won't solve the configure
problem.
- Dick
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<PRE>--------------Boundary-00=_5H6WD36Y6126M0Z2FLUH
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=&quot;us-ascii&quot;
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but here goes.
I am writing a program that reads text descriptions of &quot;Magic: The Gather=
ing&quot;=20
cards from the console, then writes them back out again.
With garbage collection turned on, a range of interesting things (dependi=
ng on
how many cards you let it read) happen - mainly null reference exceptions=
=2E =20
With garbage collection turned off, everything works fine.
Card data becomes corrupted in memory as other cards are read in.
Specifically, the length of a particular array is changed, either to zero=
or=20
an absurdly large number e.g. 7209025.
I have enthusiastically pruned my code (and got around to commenting it) =
to=20
help diagnose the problem. I couldn't isolate the problem to a specific=20
unchecked method, so I'm assuming the problem is in the garbage collectio=
n=20
code, rather than a bug elsewhere which trigers abnormal behaviour in the=
=20
garbage collector.
--------------Boundary-00=_5H6WD36Y6126M0Z2FLUH
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<H1>[Mono-gc-list] garbage collector
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<B>Jorge Chacon
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<I>Tue, 10 Aug 2004 14:11:51 +0200</I>
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<PRE>Hello,
I'm working on garbage collection, I'm studying the mono source code and how interacts it with the Boehm GC.
My purpose is to write a easy GC (reference counting, mark-sweep or mark-compact) for mono. I think the
first step could be to determine the application's root-set. Any suggestion ?
Thanks
--
Jorge Chacon &lt;<A HREF="mailto:jchacon@igalia.com">jchacon@igalia.com</A>&gt;
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<B>Nikolai Zhubr
</B>
<A HREF="mailto:s001%40hotbox.ru"
TITLE="[Mono-gc-list] Re: GC issue in mono 0.31">s001@hotbox.ru
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<I>Wed, 5 May 2004 18:30:51 +0400</I>
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<PRE>Hello Hans,
I've now tried some more things:
* Upgrading to binutils 2.13.90 didn't change anything;
* Running kernel 2.4.20 didn't essentially change anything
either;
* gctest from full 6.2 gc version does not seem to succeed:
Switched to incremental mode
Emulating dirty bits with mprotect/signals
Killed
It failes when linked statically as well. Exception happens
not at that same place as when linked from mono, but I don't
know exactly where at this time (Old gdb refused to work with
new gcc and/or binutils, I'm thinking how to better solve this)
Please let me know if I should do some other tests or if you
need more details/outputs/etc.
--
Best regards,
Nikolai Zhubr
Wednesday, 05 May, 2004, 1:34:34, you wrote:
&gt;<i> I assume nothing is prelinked? I don't think that was even an option
</I>&gt;<i> on RedHat 7.1.
</I>
&gt;<i> It would be helpful to set a breakpoint in GC_add_roots_inner, and
</I>&gt;<i> verify that it's actually being called with (DATAEND, which is
</I>&gt;<i> defined to be) _end as its middle argument.
</I>
&gt;<i> It looks like both mono and libmono define _end. By the normal ELF
</I>&gt;<i> default symbol lookup rules, I believe libmono references to _end should see the
</I>&gt;<i> definition in the main program. If this is indeed not happening, and if the
</I>&gt;<i> libmono developers aren't aware of other relevant issues, I would ask
</I>&gt;<i> on a binutils mailing list for ideas.
</I>
&gt;<i> Hans
</I>
&gt;&gt;<i> -----Original Message-----
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> From: Nikolai Zhubr [mailto:<A HREF="mailto:s001@hotbox.ru">s001@hotbox.ru</A>]
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 12:53 PM
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> To: Boehm, Hans
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> Cc: <A HREF="mailto:mono-gc-list@lists.ximian.com">mono-gc-list@lists.ximian.com</A>; <A HREF="mailto:mono-list@ximian.com">mono-list@ximian.com</A>
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> Subject: Re: GC issue in mono 0.31
</I>&gt;&gt;<i>
</I>
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<B>Nikolai Zhubr
</B>
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<I>Wed, 5 May 2004 20:05:58 +0400</I>
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<PRE>Hans,
My previous post appeared to be somewhat inexact.
The latest results are:
* gctest works on 2.4.20 kernel and fails on 2.6.5 one,
doesn't matter if linked statically or dynamically;
* mono runtime fails on 2.4.20 and 2.6.5 when linked
dynamically, but works on both kernels when linked
statically.
I think this is a tolerable workaround for me now,
however still I can provide whatever information
developers might need in order to fix the issue.
--
Best regards,
Nikolai Zhubr
Wednesday, 05 May, 2004, 18:30:51, I wrote:
&gt;<i> Hello Hans,
</I>
&gt;<i> I've now tried some more things:
</I>
&gt;<i> * Upgrading to binutils 2.13.90 didn't change anything;
</I>
&gt;<i> * Running kernel 2.4.20 didn't essentially change anything
</I>&gt;<i> either;
</I>
&gt;<i> * gctest from full 6.2 gc version does not seem to succeed:
</I>
&gt;<i> Switched to incremental mode
</I>&gt;<i> Emulating dirty bits with mprotect/signals
</I>&gt;<i> Killed
</I>
&gt;<i> It failes when linked statically as well. Exception happens
</I>&gt;<i> not at that same place as when linked from mono, but I don't
</I>&gt;<i> know exactly where at this time (Old gdb refused to work with
</I>&gt;<i> new gcc and/or binutils, I'm thinking how to better solve this)
</I>
&gt;<i> Please let me know if I should do some other tests or if you
</I>&gt;<i> need more details/outputs/etc.
</I>
</PRE>
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<H1>[Mono-gc-list] RE: GC issue in mono 0.31
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<B>Boehm, Hans
</B>
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<I>Wed, 5 May 2004 12:35:52 -0700</I>
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<PRE>[I added the <A HREF="mailto:gc@linux.hpl.hp.com">gc@linux.hpl.hp.com</A> list, since this may be of interest to others
there.]
I have a plausible explanation for the Linux 2.6.5 failure. I encountered
a similar problem on a 2.6 Itanium machine here. The problem is that the
incremental collector write protects an internal GC data structure, which
the thread-stopping signal handler tries to write. Unfortunately SIGSEGV
is blocked in that handler. This problem appears to be fairly old, but
2.6 kernels seem to schedule things differently, so that the probability of
hitting it goes from approximately zero to approximately one.
I'll release my current snapshot as 6.3alpha6 later today, so that we can
verify this.
However, this problem occurs only with incremental GC enabled, which is
rare, and almost certainly not the case for Mono. The symptoms are also
quite different from the Mono dynamic linking failure. It still looks to
me like the Mono gc is picking up the wrong _end definition. And it would
be good to track that down by looking at the GC_add_roots_inner call.
Hans
&gt;<i> -----Original Message-----
</I>&gt;<i> From: Nikolai Zhubr [mailto:<A HREF="mailto:s001@hotbox.ru">s001@hotbox.ru</A>]
</I>&gt;<i> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 9:06 AM
</I>&gt;<i> To: Boehm, Hans; <A HREF="mailto:mono-gc-list@lists.ximian.com">mono-gc-list@lists.ximian.com</A>
</I>&gt;<i> Subject: Re: GC issue in mono 0.31
</I>&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;<i> Hans,
</I>&gt;<i> My previous post appeared to be somewhat inexact.
</I>&gt;<i> The latest results are:
</I>&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;<i> * gctest works on 2.4.20 kernel and fails on 2.6.5 one,
</I>&gt;<i> doesn't matter if linked statically or dynamically;
</I>&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;<i> * mono runtime fails on 2.4.20 and 2.6.5 when linked
</I>&gt;<i> dynamically, but works on both kernels when linked
</I>&gt;<i> statically.
</I>&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;<i> I think this is a tolerable workaround for me now,
</I>&gt;<i> however still I can provide whatever information
</I>&gt;<i> developers might need in order to fix the issue.
</I>&gt;<i> --
</I>&gt;<i> Best regards,
</I>&gt;<i> Nikolai Zhubr
</I>&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;<i> Wednesday, 05 May, 2004, 18:30:51, I wrote:
</I>&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Hello Hans,
</I>&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;<i> &gt; I've now tried some more things:
</I>&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;<i> &gt; * Upgrading to binutils 2.13.90 didn't change anything;
</I>&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;<i> &gt; * Running kernel 2.4.20 didn't essentially change anything
</I>&gt;<i> &gt; either;
</I>&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;<i> &gt; * gctest from full 6.2 gc version does not seem to succeed:
</I>&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Switched to incremental mode
</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Emulating dirty bits with mprotect/signals
</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Killed
</I>&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;<i> &gt; It failes when linked statically as well. Exception happens
</I>&gt;<i> &gt; not at that same place as when linked from mono, but I don't
</I>&gt;<i> &gt; know exactly where at this time (Old gdb refused to work with
</I>&gt;<i> &gt; new gcc and/or binutils, I'm thinking how to better solve this)
</I>&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Please let me know if I should do some other tests or if you
</I>&gt;<i> &gt; need more details/outputs/etc.
</I>&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;<i>
</I>
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<H1>[Mono-gc-list] Re: GC issue in mono 0.31
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<B>Nikolai Zhubr
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TITLE="[Mono-gc-list] Re: GC issue in mono 0.31">s001@hotbox.ru
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<I>Thu, 6 May 2004 04:03:25 +0400</I>
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<PRE>------------5DD01673AECB9CD
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hello Hans,
You are right probably that there are actually two separate
problems (I was lucky enough to hit both).
Returning to dynamic linking issue, attached is the output
with GC_add_roots_inner arguments included + /proc/&lt;mono&gt;/maps.
(Some addresses have probably changed somewhat, so it might not
exactly match previously posted nm output)
--
Best regards,
Nikolai Zhubr
Wednesday, 05 May, 2004, 23:35:52, you wrote:
&gt;<i> [I added the <A HREF="mailto:gc@linux.hpl.hp.com">gc@linux.hpl.hp.com</A> list, since this may be of interest to others
</I>&gt;<i> there.]
</I>
&gt;<i> I have a plausible explanation for the Linux 2.6.5 failure. I encountered
</I>&gt;<i> a similar problem on a 2.6 Itanium machine here. The problem is that the
</I>&gt;<i> incremental collector write protects an internal GC data structure, which
</I>&gt;<i> the thread-stopping signal handler tries to write. Unfortunately SIGSEGV
</I>&gt;<i> is blocked in that handler. This problem appears to be fairly old, but
</I>&gt;<i> 2.6 kernels seem to schedule things differently, so that the probability of
</I>&gt;<i> hitting it goes from approximately zero to approximately one.
</I>
&gt;<i> I'll release my current snapshot as 6.3alpha6 later today, so that we can
</I>&gt;<i> verify this.
</I>
&gt;<i> However, this problem occurs only with incremental GC enabled, which is
</I>&gt;<i> rare, and almost certainly not the case for Mono. The symptoms are also
</I>&gt;<i> quite different from the Mono dynamic linking failure. It still looks to
</I>&gt;<i> me like the Mono gc is picking up the wrong _end definition. And it would
</I>&gt;<i> be good to track that down by looking at the GC_add_roots_inner call.
</I>
&gt;<i> Hans
</I>
&gt;&gt;<i> -----Original Message-----
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> From: Nikolai Zhubr [mailto:<A HREF="mailto:s001@hotbox.ru">s001@hotbox.ru</A>]
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 9:06 AM
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> To: Boehm, Hans; <A HREF="mailto:mono-gc-list@lists.ximian.com">mono-gc-list@lists.ximian.com</A>
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> Subject: Re: GC issue in mono 0.31
</I>&gt;&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> Hans,
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> My previous post appeared to be somewhat inexact.
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> The latest results are:
</I>&gt;&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> * gctest works on 2.4.20 kernel and fails on 2.6.5 one,
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> doesn't matter if linked statically or dynamically;
</I>&gt;&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> * mono runtime fails on 2.4.20 and 2.6.5 when linked
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> dynamically, but works on both kernels when linked
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> statically.
</I>&gt;&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> I think this is a tolerable workaround for me now,
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> however still I can provide whatever information
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> developers might need in order to fix the issue.
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> --
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> Best regards,
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> Nikolai Zhubr
</I>&gt;&gt;<i>
</I>------------5DD01673AECB9CD
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<H1>[Mono-gc-list] Re: GC issue in mono 0.31
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<B>Hans Boehm
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<I>Wed, 5 May 2004 17:14:38 -0700 (PDT)</I>
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<PRE>Thanks.
The address range that's passed to GC_add_roots_inner is clearly much too large.
Could you also print __data_start and _end at the call to GC_add_roots_inner?
(They're both declared as arrays. I want the address, not the elements.)
If that's indeed where the two arguments are coming from, then we fairly
clearly have a linker issue.
I put gc6.3alpha6 on the web site. Hopefuly the other 2.6 problem should
disappear with that.
Hans
On Thu, 6 May 2004, Nikolai Zhubr wrote:
&gt;<i> Hello Hans,
</I>&gt;<i> You are right probably that there are actually two separate
</I>&gt;<i> problems (I was lucky enough to hit both).
</I>&gt;<i> Returning to dynamic linking issue, attached is the output
</I>&gt;<i> with GC_add_roots_inner arguments included + /proc/&lt;mono&gt;/maps.
</I>&gt;<i> (Some addresses have probably changed somewhat, so it might not
</I>&gt;<i> exactly match previously posted nm output)
</I>&gt;<i>
</I>
--
Hans Boehm
(<A HREF="mailto:hboehm@hpl.hp.com">hboehm@hpl.hp.com</A>)
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<H1>[Mono-gc-list] Re: GC issue in mono 0.31
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<B>Nikolai Zhubr
</B>
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TITLE="[Mono-gc-list] Re: GC issue in mono 0.31">s001@hotbox.ru
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<I>Thu, 6 May 2004 14:52:42 +0400</I>
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<PRE>Hans,
I've checked __data_start and _end and they appear to be
exactly equal to the values passed to GC_add_roots_inner.
Regarding 6.3alpha6 version, yes it looks like gctest now
passes successfully on 2.6.5 kernel here.
--
Best regards,
Nikolai Zhubr
Thursday, 06 May, 2004, 4:14:38, you wrote:
&gt;<i> Thanks.
</I>
&gt;<i> The address range that's passed to GC_add_roots_inner is clearly much too large.
</I>
&gt;<i> Could you also print __data_start and _end at the call to GC_add_roots_inner?
</I>&gt;<i> (They're both declared as arrays. I want the address, not the elements.)
</I>&gt;<i> If that's indeed where the two arguments are coming from, then we fairly
</I>&gt;<i> clearly have a linker issue.
</I>
&gt;<i> I put gc6.3alpha6 on the web site. Hopefuly the other 2.6 problem should
</I>&gt;<i> disappear with that.
</I>
&gt;<i> Hans
</I>
&gt;<i> On Thu, 6 May 2004, Nikolai Zhubr wrote:
</I>
&gt;&gt;<i> Hello Hans,
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> You are right probably that there are actually two separate
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> problems (I was lucky enough to hit both).
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> Returning to dynamic linking issue, attached is the output
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> with GC_add_roots_inner arguments included + /proc/&lt;mono&gt;/maps.
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> (Some addresses have probably changed somewhat, so it might not
</I>&gt;&gt;<i> exactly match previously posted nm output)
</I>&gt;&gt;<i>
</I>
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<I>Fri, 05 Nov 2004 17:36:22 -0600</I>
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<PRE>On 08/13/2003 05:19 AM, Paolo Molaro wrote:
&gt;<i> Tracking the pointers in the heap is very easy: the issue is with
</I>&gt;<i> tracking them on the stack/registers. There are papers, though, about
</I>
Do you mean tracking the pointers conservatively is easy or tracking
them precisely is easy? To do this precisely, wouldn't you have to
know the pointee's type? Would this information be provided by
a method stored in the virtual function table of the pointee? Then,
wouldn't this exclude classes without virtual functions? Alternately,
it could be stored in something like Boehm's gc_descr which is stored
with the pointee. Is that what you mean. But wouldn't this require
somehow defining gc_descr for each type with has dynamically allocated
instances?
Regards,
Larry
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<PRE>Hi.
My name is Maciej Bialka, I'm not native English speaker so please forgive me
any mistakes.
I want to contribute in MONO and I am intrested in implementing
new garbage collector. I know that it's not easy and would take
a long time. I want to choose this as my thesis subject, and finish it until
June next year.
I have a few questions.
-I want to know how a cooperation between me and Mono team should look like.
-Is somebody working on this?
-Who personaly is resposible for GC ?
If you have any suggestions, advice or anything please feel free.
(specially if you can recomend me some books,articles,etc.)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ponad 400 tysiecy facetow szuka przyjaciolki, a moze czegos wiecej...
&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://link.interia.pl/f183b">http://link.interia.pl/f183b</A>
</I>
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<H1>[Mono-gc-list] Volunteer
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<B>Paolo Molaro
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<I>Mon, 22 Nov 2004 17:04:16 +0100</I>
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<PRE>On 11/20/04 Maciej wrote:
&gt;<i> I want to contribute in MONO and I am intrested in implementing
</I>&gt;<i> new garbage collector. I know that it's not easy and would take
</I>&gt;<i> a long time. I want to choose this as my thesis subject, and finish it until
</I>&gt;<i> June next year.
</I>
The timeframe is likely too short, so you'll probably have to select
a subset of the complete work (but of course you're welcome to try
and implement it all in time;-).
You should read docs/precise-gc in the mono module for an overview
of the changes needed in mono for a precise, generational GC.
&gt;<i> I have a few questions.
</I>&gt;<i> -I want to know how a cooperation between me and Mono team should look like.
</I>
Basically we'd hash out the design details together and you'd
write the code. Then we'll comment the code and when it's ok
we'll commit to svn. As soon as you have a few high quality patches
you'll be given svn commit access (though patches that are outside of
the GC-proper will still need approval at least for a while).
If you read the precise-gc doc you'll note that there are a few
changes needed in the runtime before a new GC could be plugged in:
this is kind boring work, since it needs good debugging abilities.
Once that is done, the real fun can begin with the implementation
of an actual GC.
Mono is free software, the runtime is licensed with the LGPL license,
so you can do the work and license it accordingly, but contributions
to the runtime need copyright assignment to Novell to be committed in svn.
Note that the copyright assignment form grants you back almost all the
rights to the code you wrote, so you can still do whatever you want with
your code.
If you have any issue with this or if you want more details please mail me
and miguel, so we can address the issues.
&gt;<i> -Is somebody working on this?
</I>
Not currently: we planned to start actively working on it after mono 1.2.
&gt;<i> -Who personaly is resposible for GC ?
</I>
Me, Zoltan and Dick all looked at some of the GC stuff, but you
should consider this or the mono-devel list collectively as
the people responsible for it.
&gt;<i> If you have any suggestions, advice or anything please feel free.
</I>&gt;<i> (specially if you can recomend me some books,articles,etc.)
</I>
Google for generational|precise gc and you'll get all the interesting stuff:-)
lupus
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<H1>[Mono-gc-list] Re: My arguments
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<B>Paolo Molaro
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<I>Mon, 22 Nov 2004 17:08:52 +0100</I>
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<PRE>On 11/05/04 Larry Evans wrote:
&gt;<i> &gt;Tracking the pointers in the heap is very easy: the issue is with
</I>&gt;<i> &gt;tracking them on the stack/registers. There are papers, though, about
</I>&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;<i> Do you mean tracking the pointers conservatively is easy or tracking
</I>&gt;<i> them precisely is easy? To do this precisely, wouldn't you have to
</I>
I was talking about tracking the pointers in the stack or registers
of a thread. Doing it precisely for the heap is easy. Doing it for the stack
is much harder, since it needs the jit to properly report them
and we need also a solution to handle internal calls, where objects are
manipulated by C code.
&gt;<i> know the pointee's type? Would this information be provided by
</I>&gt;<i> a method stored in the virtual function table of the pointee? Then,
</I>
The information would be stored together with the jitted code
and we can find it simply by using the instruction pointer.
lupus
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<B>Larry Evans
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<I>Wed, 24 Nov 2004 11:27:52 -0700</I>
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<PRE>On 11/22/2004 09:08 AM, Paolo Molaro wrote:
&gt;<i> On 11/05/04 Larry Evans wrote:
</I>[snip]
&gt;&gt;<i>Do you mean tracking the pointers conservatively is easy or tracking
</I>&gt;&gt;<i>them precisely is easy? To do this precisely, wouldn't you have to
</I>[snip]
&gt;<i> of a thread. Doing it precisely for the heap is easy.
</I>[snip]
&gt;<i> and we need also a solution to handle internal calls, where objects are
</I>&gt;<i> manipulated by C code.
</I>[snip]
&gt;&gt;<i>know the pointee's type? Would this information be provided by
</I>[snip]
&gt;<i> The information would be stored together with the jitted code
</I>Although C code is mentioned above, what about c++ code? Will mono
gc c++ code or only managed c++ code? If mono will only do
managed c++ code, I'm guessing mono will have to provide a compiler
for managed c++. Right?
Thanks for your replies.
Regards,
Larry
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<PRE>On 11/22/2004 09:08 AM, Paolo Molaro wrote:
[snip]
&gt;<i> I was talking about tracking the pointers in the stack or registers
</I>&gt;<i> of a thread. Doing it precisely for the heap is easy. Doing it for the stack
</I>&gt;<i> is much harder, since it needs the jit to properly report them
</I>
Assume that a gc__ managed c++ class, Base, has a virtual function which
tracks the contained heap pointers. When Base::CTOR is called, the
vtbl has an entry for the Base heap pointer. However, if Base is
actually part of Derived, then when Derived::CTOR is called this
virtual function tracks the heap pointers for both Base and Derived.
This seems analagous to stack frames. If, at the top of all stack
frames, there's a function pointer to track the heap pointers in
the stack, then as each new stack frame is entered, the pointer
is updated to reflect the newly stacked frame as well as all
previous frames. Couldn't the virtual function implementation
in c++ also be used by the compiler to track heap pointers on
the stack? IOW, if it's easy to track pointers in a class,
then, based on the above analogy, it would seem pretty easy to
adapt the compiler to do it for the stack. Am I missing something?
Thanks,
Larry.
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<H1>[Mono-gc-list] GC-(in)capability
</H1>
<B>Marek Paska
</B>
<A HREF="mailto:paskma%40students.zcu.cz"
TITLE="[Mono-gc-list] GC-(in)capability">paskma@students.zcu.cz
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<I>Mon, 6 Sep 2004 00:08:53 +0200</I>
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<PRE>Hi Mono hackers!
Since a beginning I am very interested in C# and .Net technology. Therefore I am
also very interested in Mono. I think it&amp;#8217;s a nice piece of SW that will bring
many quality applications to Linux. But:
I am deeply disappointed by poor performance (or better capability) of Mono's
GC. I've written a program for indexing FTP servers and searching its files by
name. It uses inverted files as indexes and it is designed for millions of
filenames and &quot;nearly real time&quot; answers of users' queries.
Under MS .Net Framework 1.1 it works perfectly. I would like to run it on Linux.
But under Mono I am not able to create index from crawled data. The problem is
caused by memory fragmentation. While work-space of my application (during my
index build) stays constant (150 MB), the space allocated in virtual memory
grows all the time until it eats all the swap space (1 GB) and is killed by
kernel. (Or I receive message &quot;GC warning -&gt; returning null&quot; (On Linux) or &quot;Too
many heap sections&quot; (under Win).)
I guess the fact that Mono uses GC algorithm that doesn't perform heap
compaction (and therefore allows fragmentation) is a big mistake. And absence of
stop-the-world-pauses is not sufficient argument for me. For my application (and
many other common) the GC-pauses are not very harmless. Otherwise applications
that must be really real-time are not very common. If you want to say that it&amp;#8217;s
C++ approach and C++ programs do not suffer by fragmentation, then I say that
IMHO Java/C# programming style is slightly different and produces much more
objects and its references. IMHO that&amp;#8217;s why both MS and Sun opted for
memory-copying fragmentation-guard GC algorithms. And I like Mono to provide
_standard_ solution. Now I am depressed that I cannot simply port my program
(that works well on MS.Net and would work if it is written in Java) to Mono.
Marek Paska
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<B>Paolo Molaro
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<I>Wed, 8 Sep 2004 12:54:37 +0200</I>
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<PRE>On 09/06/04 Marek Paska wrote:
&gt;<i> I am deeply disappointed by poor performance (or better capability) of Mono's
</I>&gt;<i> GC. I've written a program for indexing FTP servers and searching its files by
</I>&gt;<i> name. It uses inverted files as indexes and it is designed for millions of
</I>&gt;<i> filenames and &quot;nearly real time&quot; answers of users' queries.
</I>&gt;<i>
</I>&gt;<i> Under MS .Net Framework 1.1 it works perfectly. I would like to run it on Linux.
</I>&gt;<i> But under Mono I am not able to create index from crawled data. The problem is
</I>&gt;<i> caused by memory fragmentation. While work-space of my application (during my
</I>&gt;<i> index build) stays constant (150 MB), the space allocated in virtual memory
</I>&gt;<i> grows all the time until it eats all the swap space (1 GB) and is killed by
</I>&gt;<i> kernel. (Or I receive message &quot;GC warning -&gt; returning null&quot; (On Linux) or &quot;Too
</I>&gt;<i> many heap sections&quot; (under Win).)
</I>
What version of mono are you using? Mono from CVS has significantly
better behaviour than mono 1.0.x for that kind of loads.
&gt;<i> I guess the fact that Mono uses GC algorithm that doesn't perform heap
</I>&gt;<i> compaction (and therefore allows fragmentation) is a big mistake. And absence of
</I>&gt;<i> stop-the-world-pauses is not sufficient argument for me. For my application (and
</I>&gt;<i> many other common) the GC-pauses are not very harmless. Otherwise applications
</I>
We use the Boehm GC, which causes pauses as well. As said, mono from cvs
HEAD has better behaviour and we're incrementally improving it. We're
also working on a compacting generational GC, but that will be available
only in a year or so.
lupus
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------
<A HREF="mailto:lupus@debian.org">lupus@debian.org</A> debian/rules
<A HREF="mailto:lupus@ximian.com">lupus@ximian.com</A> Monkeys do it better
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<B>romyd misc</B>
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<I>Mon Jun 19 10:03:20 EDT 2006</I>
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<PRE>Hi All,
I want to use DllImport to call a C function that allocates and
returns an array of strings. I'm not sure if this is the right place
to ask this question, but my sample code works with windows .NET
compiler, so either there is a different way to call unmanaged dlls in
mono or may be i'm not implementing it right?
I've a C function that converts a char * to wchar_t *
DllExport Func(wchar_t** ipadds)
{
char mbBuf[BUF_SIZE] = &quot;1.1.1.1&quot;;
char* s = mbBuf;
size_t len = strlen (mbBuf);
wchar_t *result = malloc ((len + 1) * sizeof (wchar_t));
wchar_t *wcp = result;
wchar_t tmp;
mbstate_t state;
size_t nbytes;
int i = 0;
memset (&amp;state, '\0', sizeof (state));
while ((nbytes = mbrtowc (&amp;tmp, s, len, &amp;state)) &gt; 0)
{
if (nbytes &gt;= (size_t) -2)
/* Invalid input string. */
return NULL;
result[i] = tmp;
i++;
len -= nbytes;
s += nbytes;
}
result[i] = '\0';
*ipadds = result;
}
My C# code looks like this:
[DllImport(&quot;KeyServerUsage.dll&quot;, CharSet = CharSet.Auto,
EntryPoint = &quot;Func&quot;)]
private static extern void Func([Out] string[] Names);
public ArrayList GetIPAdd()
{
string[] ipadds = new string[2];
Func(ipadds);
}
Now i get a blank array returned in ipadds when i run this program
with mono. But when i run the same program on windows, i get &quot;1.1.1.1&quot;
in ipadds[0]. Any help would be greatly appreciated. BTW I have the
same question posted on mono-devel mailing list too.
Thanks,
Romy
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<H1>[Mono-gc-list] Request for backport of garbage collection patch</H1>
<B>Matt Jones</B>
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<PRE>Hi -
I'm working on improving mono-under-wine (on the wine side), and I've
been hitting a bug in the mono garbage collector fixed by commit
#77073 ([1]). The bug in question is a race condition between
GetExitCodeThread and SuspendThread - if a thread terminates between
the two, SuspendThread will fail. The race condition is pretty
reliably triggered by the regression test suite when running under
wine.
The current patch could actually be reduced further (the
GetExitCodeThread block could be fully deleted, as it is rendered
redundant), but it works as is.
Any chance this patch could be applied to the maintenance branch? The
patch applies cleanly to 1.13.8.2.
Thank you very much,
-Matt Jones
[1] <A HREF="http://anonsvn.mono-project.com/viewcvs/trunk/mono/libgc/win32_threads.c?rev=77073&amp;view=log">http://anonsvn.mono-project.com/viewcvs/trunk/mono/libgc/win32_threads.c?rev=77073&amp;view=log</A>
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