diff --git a/editor/base/nsHTMLEditRules.cpp b/editor/base/nsHTMLEditRules.cpp
index 9510e5d3f18..5e95fd27b43 100644
--- a/editor/base/nsHTMLEditRules.cpp
+++ b/editor/base/nsHTMLEditRules.cpp
@@ -1871,106 +1871,6 @@ nsHTMLEditRules::IsEmptyBlock(nsIDOMNode *aNode,
 }
 
 
-///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
-// IsEmptyNode: figure out if aNode is an empty node.
-//               A block can have children and still be considered empty,
-//               if the children are empty or non-editable.
-//                  
-nsresult 
-nsHTMLEditRules::IsEmptyNode( nsIDOMNode *aNode, 
-                              PRBool *outIsEmptyNode, 
-                              PRBool aMozBRDoesntCount,
-                              PRBool aListItemsNotEmpty)
-{
-  if (!aNode || !outIsEmptyNode) return NS_ERROR_NULL_POINTER;
-  *outIsEmptyNode = PR_TRUE;
-  
-  // effeciency hack - special case if it's a text node
-  if (nsEditor::IsTextNode(aNode))
-  {
-    PRUint32 length = 0;
-    nsCOMPtr<nsIDOMCharacterData>nodeAsText;
-    nodeAsText = do_QueryInterface(aNode);
-    nodeAsText->GetLength(&length);
-    if (length) *outIsEmptyNode = PR_FALSE;
-    return NS_OK;
-  }
-
-  // if it's not a text node (handled above) and it's not a container,
-  // then we dont call it empty (it's an <hr>, or <br>, etc).
-  // Also, if it's an anchor then dont treat it as empty - even though
-  // anchors are containers, named anchors are "empty" but we don't
-  // want to treat them as such.  Also, don't call ListItems or table
-  // cells empty if caller desires.
-  if (!mEditor->IsContainer(aNode) || nsHTMLEditUtils::IsAnchor(aNode) || 
-       (aListItemsNotEmpty && nsHTMLEditUtils::IsListItem(aNode)) ||
-       (aListItemsNotEmpty && nsHTMLEditUtils::IsTableCell(aNode)) ) 
-  {
-    *outIsEmptyNode = PR_FALSE;
-    return NS_OK;
-  }
-  
-  // iterate over node. if no children, or all children are either 
-  // empty text nodes or non-editable, then node qualifies as empty
-  nsCOMPtr<nsIContentIterator> iter;
-  nsCOMPtr<nsIContent> nodeAsContent = do_QueryInterface(aNode);
-  if (!nodeAsContent) return NS_ERROR_FAILURE;
-  nsresult res = nsComponentManager::CreateInstance(kContentIteratorCID,
-                                        nsnull,
-                                        NS_GET_IID(nsIContentIterator), 
-                                        getter_AddRefs(iter));
-  if (NS_FAILED(res)) return res;
-  res = iter->Init(nodeAsContent);
-  if (NS_FAILED(res)) return res;
-    
-  while (NS_ENUMERATOR_FALSE == iter->IsDone())
-  {
-    nsCOMPtr<nsIDOMNode> node;
-    nsCOMPtr<nsIContent> content;
-    res = iter->CurrentNode(getter_AddRefs(content));
-    if (NS_FAILED(res)) return res;
-    node = do_QueryInterface(content);
-    if (!node) return NS_ERROR_FAILURE;
- 
-    // is the node editable and non-empty?  if so, return false
-    if (mEditor->IsEditable(node))
-    {
-      if (nsEditor::IsTextNode(node))
-      {
-        PRUint32 length = 0;
-        nsCOMPtr<nsIDOMCharacterData>nodeAsText;
-        nodeAsText = do_QueryInterface(node);
-        nodeAsText->GetLength(&length);
-        if (length) *outIsEmptyNode = PR_FALSE;
-      }
-      else  // an editable, non-text node. we aren't an empty block 
-      {
-        // is it the node we are iterating over?
-        if (node.get() == aNode) break;
-        // is it a moz-BR and did the caller ask us not to consider those relevant?
-        if (!(aMozBRDoesntCount && nsHTMLEditUtils::IsMozBR(node))) 
-        {
-          // is it an empty node of some sort?
-          PRBool isEmptyNode;
-          res = IsEmptyNode(node, &isEmptyNode, aMozBRDoesntCount, aListItemsNotEmpty);
-          if (NS_FAILED(res)) return res;
-          if (!isEmptyNode) 
-          {
-            // otherwise it ain't empty
-            *outIsEmptyNode = PR_FALSE;
-            break;
-          }
-        }
-      }
-    }
-    res = iter->Next();
-    if (NS_FAILED(res)) return res;
-  }
-  
-  return NS_OK;
-}
-
-
 nsresult
 nsHTMLEditRules::WillAlign(nsIDOMSelection *aSelection, 
                            const nsString *alignType, 
diff --git a/editor/base/nsHTMLEditRules.h b/editor/base/nsHTMLEditRules.h
index 043288a77e3..6c038fd5654 100644
--- a/editor/base/nsHTMLEditRules.h
+++ b/editor/base/nsHTMLEditRules.h
@@ -117,10 +117,12 @@ protected:
                         PRBool *outIsEmptyBlock, 
                         PRBool aMozBRDoesntCount = PR_FALSE,
                         PRBool aListItemsNotEmpty = PR_FALSE);
+#if 0
   nsresult IsEmptyNode(nsIDOMNode *aNode, 
                        PRBool *outIsEmptyBlock, 
                        PRBool aMozBRDoesntCount = PR_FALSE,
                        PRBool aListItemsNotEmpty = PR_FALSE);
+#endif
   PRBool IsFirstNode(nsIDOMNode *aNode);
   PRBool IsLastNode(nsIDOMNode *aNode);
   PRBool AtStartOfBlock(nsIDOMNode *aNode, PRInt32 aOffset, nsIDOMNode *aBlock);
diff --git a/editor/base/nsHTMLEditor.cpp b/editor/base/nsHTMLEditor.cpp
index 99a218674f6..00321c92e50 100644
--- a/editor/base/nsHTMLEditor.cpp
+++ b/editor/base/nsHTMLEditor.cpp
@@ -4676,8 +4676,11 @@ nsHTMLEditor::InsertAsPlaintextQuotation(const nsString& aQuotedText,
       // Do this after the insertion, so that 
       nsCOMPtr<nsIDOMElement> preElement (do_QueryInterface(preNode));
       if (preElement)
+      {
         preElement->SetAttribute(NS_ConvertASCIItoUCS2("_moz_quote"), NS_ConvertASCIItoUCS2("true"));
-
+        // set style to not have unwanted vertical margins
+        preElement->SetAttribute(NS_ConvertASCIItoUCS2("style"), NS_ConvertASCIItoUCS2("margin: 0 0 0 0px;"));
+      }
       // and set the selection inside it:
       selection->Collapse(preNode, 0);
     }
diff --git a/editor/base/nsTextEditRules.cpp b/editor/base/nsTextEditRules.cpp
index ef498132002..b27d44149a3 100644
--- a/editor/base/nsTextEditRules.cpp
+++ b/editor/base/nsTextEditRules.cpp
@@ -456,13 +456,37 @@ nsTextEditRules::WillInsertBreak(nsIDOMSelection *aSelection, PRBool *aCancel, P
               && isMozQuote)
           {
             printf("It's a moz quote -- splitting\n");
-            res = mEditor->SplitNodeDeep(preNode, selNode, selOffset, &newOffset);
+            nsCOMPtr<nsIDOMNode> outLeftNode;
+            nsCOMPtr<nsIDOMNode> outRightNode;
+            res = mEditor->SplitNodeDeep(preNode, selNode, selOffset, &newOffset, &outLeftNode, &outRightNode);
             if (NS_FAILED(res)) return res;
+            PRBool bIsEmptyNode;
+            if (outLeftNode)
+            {
+              res = IsEmptyNode(outLeftNode, &bIsEmptyNode, PR_TRUE, PR_FALSE);
+              if (NS_FAILED(res)) return res;
+              if (bIsEmptyNode) mEditor->DeleteNode(outLeftNode);
+            }
+            if (outRightNode)
+            {
+              // HACK alert: consume a br if there s one at front of node
+              nsCOMPtr<nsIDOMNode> firstNode;
+              res =  mEditor->GetFirstEditableNode(outRightNode, &firstNode);
+              if (firstNode &&  nsHTMLEditUtils::IsBreak(firstNode))
+              {
+                mEditor->DeleteNode(firstNode);
+              }
+                
+              res = IsEmptyNode(outRightNode, &bIsEmptyNode, PR_TRUE, PR_FALSE);
+              if (NS_FAILED(res)) return res;
+              if (bIsEmptyNode) mEditor->DeleteNode(outRightNode);
+            }
             res = preNode->GetParentNode(getter_AddRefs(selNode));
             if (NS_FAILED(res)) return res;
             nsCOMPtr<nsIDOMNode> brNode;
             // last ePrevious param causes selection to be set before the break
             res = mEditor->CreateBR(selNode, newOffset, &brNode, nsIEditor::ePrevious);
+            *aHandled = PR_TRUE;
           }
         }
       }
@@ -1300,5 +1324,103 @@ nsTextEditRules::CreateMozBR(nsIDOMNode *inParent, PRInt32 inOffset, nsCOMPtr<ns
   return res;
 }
 
+///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
+// IsEmptyNode: figure out if aNode is an empty node.
+//               A block can have children and still be considered empty,
+//               if the children are empty or non-editable.
+//                  
+nsresult 
+nsTextEditRules::IsEmptyNode( nsIDOMNode *aNode, 
+                              PRBool *outIsEmptyNode, 
+                              PRBool aMozBRDoesntCount,
+                              PRBool aListItemsNotEmpty)
+{
+  if (!aNode || !outIsEmptyNode) return NS_ERROR_NULL_POINTER;
+  *outIsEmptyNode = PR_TRUE;
+  
+  // effeciency hack - special case if it's a text node
+  if (nsEditor::IsTextNode(aNode))
+  {
+    PRUint32 length = 0;
+    nsCOMPtr<nsIDOMCharacterData>nodeAsText;
+    nodeAsText = do_QueryInterface(aNode);
+    nodeAsText->GetLength(&length);
+    if (length) *outIsEmptyNode = PR_FALSE;
+    return NS_OK;
+  }
+
+  // if it's not a text node (handled above) and it's not a container,
+  // then we dont call it empty (it's an <hr>, or <br>, etc).
+  // Also, if it's an anchor then dont treat it as empty - even though
+  // anchors are containers, named anchors are "empty" but we don't
+  // want to treat them as such.  Also, don't call ListItems or table
+  // cells empty if caller desires.
+  if (!mEditor->IsContainer(aNode) || nsHTMLEditUtils::IsAnchor(aNode) || 
+       (aListItemsNotEmpty && nsHTMLEditUtils::IsListItem(aNode)) ||
+       (aListItemsNotEmpty && nsHTMLEditUtils::IsTableCell(aNode)) ) 
+  {
+    *outIsEmptyNode = PR_FALSE;
+    return NS_OK;
+  }
+  
+  // iterate over node. if no children, or all children are either 
+  // empty text nodes or non-editable, then node qualifies as empty
+  nsCOMPtr<nsIContentIterator> iter;
+  nsCOMPtr<nsIContent> nodeAsContent = do_QueryInterface(aNode);
+  if (!nodeAsContent) return NS_ERROR_FAILURE;
+  nsresult res = nsComponentManager::CreateInstance(kContentIteratorCID,
+                                        nsnull,
+                                        NS_GET_IID(nsIContentIterator), 
+                                        getter_AddRefs(iter));
+  if (NS_FAILED(res)) return res;
+  res = iter->Init(nodeAsContent);
+  if (NS_FAILED(res)) return res;
+    
+  while (NS_ENUMERATOR_FALSE == iter->IsDone())
+  {
+    nsCOMPtr<nsIDOMNode> node;
+    nsCOMPtr<nsIContent> content;
+    res = iter->CurrentNode(getter_AddRefs(content));
+    if (NS_FAILED(res)) return res;
+    node = do_QueryInterface(content);
+    if (!node) return NS_ERROR_FAILURE;
+ 
+    // is the node editable and non-empty?  if so, return false
+    if (mEditor->IsEditable(node))
+    {
+      if (nsEditor::IsTextNode(node))
+      {
+        PRUint32 length = 0;
+        nsCOMPtr<nsIDOMCharacterData>nodeAsText;
+        nodeAsText = do_QueryInterface(node);
+        nodeAsText->GetLength(&length);
+        if (length) *outIsEmptyNode = PR_FALSE;
+      }
+      else  // an editable, non-text node. we aren't an empty block 
+      {
+        // is it the node we are iterating over?
+        if (node.get() == aNode) break;
+        // is it a moz-BR and did the caller ask us not to consider those relevant?
+        if (!(aMozBRDoesntCount && nsHTMLEditUtils::IsMozBR(node))) 
+        {
+          // is it an empty node of some sort?
+          PRBool isEmptyNode;
+          res = IsEmptyNode(node, &isEmptyNode, aMozBRDoesntCount, aListItemsNotEmpty);
+          if (NS_FAILED(res)) return res;
+          if (!isEmptyNode) 
+          {
+            // otherwise it ain't empty
+            *outIsEmptyNode = PR_FALSE;
+            break;
+          }
+        }
+      }
+    }
+    res = iter->Next();
+    if (NS_FAILED(res)) return res;
+  }
+  
+  return NS_OK;
+}
 
 
diff --git a/editor/base/nsTextEditRules.h b/editor/base/nsTextEditRules.h
index b7d0821f1d1..d319b89bb21 100644
--- a/editor/base/nsTextEditRules.h
+++ b/editor/base/nsTextEditRules.h
@@ -160,6 +160,10 @@ protected:
 
   nsresult CreateMozBR(nsIDOMNode *inParent, PRInt32 inOffset, nsCOMPtr<nsIDOMNode> *outBRNode);
 
+  nsresult IsEmptyNode(nsIDOMNode *aNode, 
+                       PRBool *outIsEmptyBlock, 
+                       PRBool aMozBRDoesntCount = PR_FALSE,
+                       PRBool aListItemsNotEmpty = PR_FALSE);
 
   // data members
   nsHTMLEditor *mEditor;  // note that we do not refcount the editor
diff --git a/editor/libeditor/html/nsHTMLEditRules.cpp b/editor/libeditor/html/nsHTMLEditRules.cpp
index 9510e5d3f18..5e95fd27b43 100644
--- a/editor/libeditor/html/nsHTMLEditRules.cpp
+++ b/editor/libeditor/html/nsHTMLEditRules.cpp
@@ -1871,106 +1871,6 @@ nsHTMLEditRules::IsEmptyBlock(nsIDOMNode *aNode,
 }
 
 
-///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
-// IsEmptyNode: figure out if aNode is an empty node.
-//               A block can have children and still be considered empty,
-//               if the children are empty or non-editable.
-//                  
-nsresult 
-nsHTMLEditRules::IsEmptyNode( nsIDOMNode *aNode, 
-                              PRBool *outIsEmptyNode, 
-                              PRBool aMozBRDoesntCount,
-                              PRBool aListItemsNotEmpty)
-{
-  if (!aNode || !outIsEmptyNode) return NS_ERROR_NULL_POINTER;
-  *outIsEmptyNode = PR_TRUE;
-  
-  // effeciency hack - special case if it's a text node
-  if (nsEditor::IsTextNode(aNode))
-  {
-    PRUint32 length = 0;
-    nsCOMPtr<nsIDOMCharacterData>nodeAsText;
-    nodeAsText = do_QueryInterface(aNode);
-    nodeAsText->GetLength(&length);
-    if (length) *outIsEmptyNode = PR_FALSE;
-    return NS_OK;
-  }
-
-  // if it's not a text node (handled above) and it's not a container,
-  // then we dont call it empty (it's an <hr>, or <br>, etc).
-  // Also, if it's an anchor then dont treat it as empty - even though
-  // anchors are containers, named anchors are "empty" but we don't
-  // want to treat them as such.  Also, don't call ListItems or table
-  // cells empty if caller desires.
-  if (!mEditor->IsContainer(aNode) || nsHTMLEditUtils::IsAnchor(aNode) || 
-       (aListItemsNotEmpty && nsHTMLEditUtils::IsListItem(aNode)) ||
-       (aListItemsNotEmpty && nsHTMLEditUtils::IsTableCell(aNode)) ) 
-  {
-    *outIsEmptyNode = PR_FALSE;
-    return NS_OK;
-  }
-  
-  // iterate over node. if no children, or all children are either 
-  // empty text nodes or non-editable, then node qualifies as empty
-  nsCOMPtr<nsIContentIterator> iter;
-  nsCOMPtr<nsIContent> nodeAsContent = do_QueryInterface(aNode);
-  if (!nodeAsContent) return NS_ERROR_FAILURE;
-  nsresult res = nsComponentManager::CreateInstance(kContentIteratorCID,
-                                        nsnull,
-                                        NS_GET_IID(nsIContentIterator), 
-                                        getter_AddRefs(iter));
-  if (NS_FAILED(res)) return res;
-  res = iter->Init(nodeAsContent);
-  if (NS_FAILED(res)) return res;
-    
-  while (NS_ENUMERATOR_FALSE == iter->IsDone())
-  {
-    nsCOMPtr<nsIDOMNode> node;
-    nsCOMPtr<nsIContent> content;
-    res = iter->CurrentNode(getter_AddRefs(content));
-    if (NS_FAILED(res)) return res;
-    node = do_QueryInterface(content);
-    if (!node) return NS_ERROR_FAILURE;
- 
-    // is the node editable and non-empty?  if so, return false
-    if (mEditor->IsEditable(node))
-    {
-      if (nsEditor::IsTextNode(node))
-      {
-        PRUint32 length = 0;
-        nsCOMPtr<nsIDOMCharacterData>nodeAsText;
-        nodeAsText = do_QueryInterface(node);
-        nodeAsText->GetLength(&length);
-        if (length) *outIsEmptyNode = PR_FALSE;
-      }
-      else  // an editable, non-text node. we aren't an empty block 
-      {
-        // is it the node we are iterating over?
-        if (node.get() == aNode) break;
-        // is it a moz-BR and did the caller ask us not to consider those relevant?
-        if (!(aMozBRDoesntCount && nsHTMLEditUtils::IsMozBR(node))) 
-        {
-          // is it an empty node of some sort?
-          PRBool isEmptyNode;
-          res = IsEmptyNode(node, &isEmptyNode, aMozBRDoesntCount, aListItemsNotEmpty);
-          if (NS_FAILED(res)) return res;
-          if (!isEmptyNode) 
-          {
-            // otherwise it ain't empty
-            *outIsEmptyNode = PR_FALSE;
-            break;
-          }
-        }
-      }
-    }
-    res = iter->Next();
-    if (NS_FAILED(res)) return res;
-  }
-  
-  return NS_OK;
-}
-
-
 nsresult
 nsHTMLEditRules::WillAlign(nsIDOMSelection *aSelection, 
                            const nsString *alignType, 
diff --git a/editor/libeditor/html/nsHTMLEditRules.h b/editor/libeditor/html/nsHTMLEditRules.h
index 043288a77e3..6c038fd5654 100644
--- a/editor/libeditor/html/nsHTMLEditRules.h
+++ b/editor/libeditor/html/nsHTMLEditRules.h
@@ -117,10 +117,12 @@ protected:
                         PRBool *outIsEmptyBlock, 
                         PRBool aMozBRDoesntCount = PR_FALSE,
                         PRBool aListItemsNotEmpty = PR_FALSE);
+#if 0
   nsresult IsEmptyNode(nsIDOMNode *aNode, 
                        PRBool *outIsEmptyBlock, 
                        PRBool aMozBRDoesntCount = PR_FALSE,
                        PRBool aListItemsNotEmpty = PR_FALSE);
+#endif
   PRBool IsFirstNode(nsIDOMNode *aNode);
   PRBool IsLastNode(nsIDOMNode *aNode);
   PRBool AtStartOfBlock(nsIDOMNode *aNode, PRInt32 aOffset, nsIDOMNode *aBlock);
diff --git a/editor/libeditor/html/nsHTMLEditor.cpp b/editor/libeditor/html/nsHTMLEditor.cpp
index 99a218674f6..00321c92e50 100644
--- a/editor/libeditor/html/nsHTMLEditor.cpp
+++ b/editor/libeditor/html/nsHTMLEditor.cpp
@@ -4676,8 +4676,11 @@ nsHTMLEditor::InsertAsPlaintextQuotation(const nsString& aQuotedText,
       // Do this after the insertion, so that 
       nsCOMPtr<nsIDOMElement> preElement (do_QueryInterface(preNode));
       if (preElement)
+      {
         preElement->SetAttribute(NS_ConvertASCIItoUCS2("_moz_quote"), NS_ConvertASCIItoUCS2("true"));
-
+        // set style to not have unwanted vertical margins
+        preElement->SetAttribute(NS_ConvertASCIItoUCS2("style"), NS_ConvertASCIItoUCS2("margin: 0 0 0 0px;"));
+      }
       // and set the selection inside it:
       selection->Collapse(preNode, 0);
     }
diff --git a/editor/libeditor/text/nsTextEditRules.cpp b/editor/libeditor/text/nsTextEditRules.cpp
index ef498132002..b27d44149a3 100644
--- a/editor/libeditor/text/nsTextEditRules.cpp
+++ b/editor/libeditor/text/nsTextEditRules.cpp
@@ -456,13 +456,37 @@ nsTextEditRules::WillInsertBreak(nsIDOMSelection *aSelection, PRBool *aCancel, P
               && isMozQuote)
           {
             printf("It's a moz quote -- splitting\n");
-            res = mEditor->SplitNodeDeep(preNode, selNode, selOffset, &newOffset);
+            nsCOMPtr<nsIDOMNode> outLeftNode;
+            nsCOMPtr<nsIDOMNode> outRightNode;
+            res = mEditor->SplitNodeDeep(preNode, selNode, selOffset, &newOffset, &outLeftNode, &outRightNode);
             if (NS_FAILED(res)) return res;
+            PRBool bIsEmptyNode;
+            if (outLeftNode)
+            {
+              res = IsEmptyNode(outLeftNode, &bIsEmptyNode, PR_TRUE, PR_FALSE);
+              if (NS_FAILED(res)) return res;
+              if (bIsEmptyNode) mEditor->DeleteNode(outLeftNode);
+            }
+            if (outRightNode)
+            {
+              // HACK alert: consume a br if there s one at front of node
+              nsCOMPtr<nsIDOMNode> firstNode;
+              res =  mEditor->GetFirstEditableNode(outRightNode, &firstNode);
+              if (firstNode &&  nsHTMLEditUtils::IsBreak(firstNode))
+              {
+                mEditor->DeleteNode(firstNode);
+              }
+                
+              res = IsEmptyNode(outRightNode, &bIsEmptyNode, PR_TRUE, PR_FALSE);
+              if (NS_FAILED(res)) return res;
+              if (bIsEmptyNode) mEditor->DeleteNode(outRightNode);
+            }
             res = preNode->GetParentNode(getter_AddRefs(selNode));
             if (NS_FAILED(res)) return res;
             nsCOMPtr<nsIDOMNode> brNode;
             // last ePrevious param causes selection to be set before the break
             res = mEditor->CreateBR(selNode, newOffset, &brNode, nsIEditor::ePrevious);
+            *aHandled = PR_TRUE;
           }
         }
       }
@@ -1300,5 +1324,103 @@ nsTextEditRules::CreateMozBR(nsIDOMNode *inParent, PRInt32 inOffset, nsCOMPtr<ns
   return res;
 }
 
+///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
+// IsEmptyNode: figure out if aNode is an empty node.
+//               A block can have children and still be considered empty,
+//               if the children are empty or non-editable.
+//                  
+nsresult 
+nsTextEditRules::IsEmptyNode( nsIDOMNode *aNode, 
+                              PRBool *outIsEmptyNode, 
+                              PRBool aMozBRDoesntCount,
+                              PRBool aListItemsNotEmpty)
+{
+  if (!aNode || !outIsEmptyNode) return NS_ERROR_NULL_POINTER;
+  *outIsEmptyNode = PR_TRUE;
+  
+  // effeciency hack - special case if it's a text node
+  if (nsEditor::IsTextNode(aNode))
+  {
+    PRUint32 length = 0;
+    nsCOMPtr<nsIDOMCharacterData>nodeAsText;
+    nodeAsText = do_QueryInterface(aNode);
+    nodeAsText->GetLength(&length);
+    if (length) *outIsEmptyNode = PR_FALSE;
+    return NS_OK;
+  }
+
+  // if it's not a text node (handled above) and it's not a container,
+  // then we dont call it empty (it's an <hr>, or <br>, etc).
+  // Also, if it's an anchor then dont treat it as empty - even though
+  // anchors are containers, named anchors are "empty" but we don't
+  // want to treat them as such.  Also, don't call ListItems or table
+  // cells empty if caller desires.
+  if (!mEditor->IsContainer(aNode) || nsHTMLEditUtils::IsAnchor(aNode) || 
+       (aListItemsNotEmpty && nsHTMLEditUtils::IsListItem(aNode)) ||
+       (aListItemsNotEmpty && nsHTMLEditUtils::IsTableCell(aNode)) ) 
+  {
+    *outIsEmptyNode = PR_FALSE;
+    return NS_OK;
+  }
+  
+  // iterate over node. if no children, or all children are either 
+  // empty text nodes or non-editable, then node qualifies as empty
+  nsCOMPtr<nsIContentIterator> iter;
+  nsCOMPtr<nsIContent> nodeAsContent = do_QueryInterface(aNode);
+  if (!nodeAsContent) return NS_ERROR_FAILURE;
+  nsresult res = nsComponentManager::CreateInstance(kContentIteratorCID,
+                                        nsnull,
+                                        NS_GET_IID(nsIContentIterator), 
+                                        getter_AddRefs(iter));
+  if (NS_FAILED(res)) return res;
+  res = iter->Init(nodeAsContent);
+  if (NS_FAILED(res)) return res;
+    
+  while (NS_ENUMERATOR_FALSE == iter->IsDone())
+  {
+    nsCOMPtr<nsIDOMNode> node;
+    nsCOMPtr<nsIContent> content;
+    res = iter->CurrentNode(getter_AddRefs(content));
+    if (NS_FAILED(res)) return res;
+    node = do_QueryInterface(content);
+    if (!node) return NS_ERROR_FAILURE;
+ 
+    // is the node editable and non-empty?  if so, return false
+    if (mEditor->IsEditable(node))
+    {
+      if (nsEditor::IsTextNode(node))
+      {
+        PRUint32 length = 0;
+        nsCOMPtr<nsIDOMCharacterData>nodeAsText;
+        nodeAsText = do_QueryInterface(node);
+        nodeAsText->GetLength(&length);
+        if (length) *outIsEmptyNode = PR_FALSE;
+      }
+      else  // an editable, non-text node. we aren't an empty block 
+      {
+        // is it the node we are iterating over?
+        if (node.get() == aNode) break;
+        // is it a moz-BR and did the caller ask us not to consider those relevant?
+        if (!(aMozBRDoesntCount && nsHTMLEditUtils::IsMozBR(node))) 
+        {
+          // is it an empty node of some sort?
+          PRBool isEmptyNode;
+          res = IsEmptyNode(node, &isEmptyNode, aMozBRDoesntCount, aListItemsNotEmpty);
+          if (NS_FAILED(res)) return res;
+          if (!isEmptyNode) 
+          {
+            // otherwise it ain't empty
+            *outIsEmptyNode = PR_FALSE;
+            break;
+          }
+        }
+      }
+    }
+    res = iter->Next();
+    if (NS_FAILED(res)) return res;
+  }
+  
+  return NS_OK;
+}
 
 
diff --git a/editor/libeditor/text/nsTextEditRules.h b/editor/libeditor/text/nsTextEditRules.h
index b7d0821f1d1..d319b89bb21 100644
--- a/editor/libeditor/text/nsTextEditRules.h
+++ b/editor/libeditor/text/nsTextEditRules.h
@@ -160,6 +160,10 @@ protected:
 
   nsresult CreateMozBR(nsIDOMNode *inParent, PRInt32 inOffset, nsCOMPtr<nsIDOMNode> *outBRNode);
 
+  nsresult IsEmptyNode(nsIDOMNode *aNode, 
+                       PRBool *outIsEmptyBlock, 
+                       PRBool aMozBRDoesntCount = PR_FALSE,
+                       PRBool aListItemsNotEmpty = PR_FALSE);
 
   // data members
   nsHTMLEditor *mEditor;  // note that we do not refcount the editor